Is it a sword or a spear ?

frequent · 16th November 2006, 07:44 AM

this looks like it would be a sword but could havebeen a spear right.

Freddy · 16th November 2006, 10:11 AM

Flavio, I would like to see that picture.

In the mean time, here's the picture shown in the second boor of Zirngibl. These two are definitively converted spear blades. Look at the one on the left. It's handle is very similar to the handle on my piece.

Zirngible identifies these pieces as : Lokele (length : 74 and 73 cm)

Freddy · 16th November 2006, 10:23 AM

In Zirngibl's first book, Afrikanische Waffen (1978, p 76), there's also a picture of a converted spearhead. This one comes from the Bambuti (Mbuti), a pygmy-tribe.

The author writes this :

The pygmies don't work with metal. Instead, they acquire their knives and spearheads by trading bagged quary for them. The knife shown is typical. The handle is attached to the shaft of what was likely a spearhead.

Length of this dagger : 31 cm.

Tim Simmons · 16th November 2006, 02:08 PM

Is the handle woven cordage {string}? It looks very nicely done. I think it is a super thing, I can imagine it in my hand. Alas it is in yours

.

tom hyle · 18th November 2006, 10:31 PM

These type swords are often thought to be remade spear blades, but close examination usually yields no specific signs of such; ie the tang visibly converted from a socket, while many African tribes have swords and spears of similar blades; most to mind is the seme and the Massai "lion" spear. There is a spear in a shop here in Houston(for too much money for me) that has a distinctive blade usually only seen (in US) as a sword; Salampasu, I think; a sort of Etruscan looking thing.....

Flavio · 26th December 2006, 12:44 PM

Freddy, sorry for the delay!!!! I had forgotten this thread

. Anyway here we go: here is the picture of the sword with its scabbard. It's taken from the book "LAME D'AFRICA - M. Piccardi, L. Salvatici" tribe: topoke.

FourBlades · 26th December 2006, 02:46 PM

Somewhere I read that warriors were not allowed to carry their spears into European settled cities in Africa, so they cut off the shafts and carried them as swords or knives instead. Many of those I have seen have thin, solid tangs like swords and not like converted spears. Does anyone have one that has a socketed tang?

Good collecting to everyone in the new year!

John

26th December 2006, 12:44 PM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Freddy, sorry for the delay!!!! I had forgotten this thread . Anyway here we go: here is the picture of the sword with its scabbard. It's taken from the book "LAME D'AFRICA - M. Piccardi, L. Salvatici" tribe: topoke. Attached Images

26th December 2006, 02:46 PM	#7
FourBlades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 13	Converting spears to swords Somewhere I read that warriors were not allowed to carry their spears into European settled cities in Africa, so they cut off the shafts and carried them as swords or knives instead. Many of those I have seen have thin, solid tangs like swords and not like converted spears. Does anyone have one that has a socketed tang? Good collecting to everyone in the new year! John

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16th November 2006, 07:44 AM	#1
frequent Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 7	this looks like it would be a sword but could havebeen a spear right.

16th November 2006, 10:11 AM	#2
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Flavio, I would like to see that picture. In the mean time, here's the picture shown in the second boor of Zirngibl. These two are definitively converted spear blades. Look at the one on the left. It's handle is very similar to the handle on my piece. Zirngible identifies these pieces as : Lokele (length : 74 and 73 cm)

16th November 2006, 10:23 AM	#3
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	In Zirngibl's first book, Afrikanische Waffen (1978, p 76), there's also a picture of a converted spearhead. This one comes from the Bambuti (Mbuti), a pygmy-tribe. The author writes this : The pygmies don't work with metal. Instead, they acquire their knives and spearheads by trading bagged quary for them. The knife shown is typical. The handle is attached to the shaft of what was likely a spearhead. Length of this dagger : 31 cm.

16th November 2006, 02:08 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Is the handle woven cordage {string}? It looks very nicely done. I think it is a super thing, I can imagine it in my hand. Alas it is in yours .

18th November 2006, 10:31 PM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	These type swords are often thought to be remade spear blades, but close examination usually yields no specific signs of such; ie the tang visibly converted from a socket, while many African tribes have swords and spears of similar blades; most to mind is the seme and the Massai "lion" spear. There is a spear in a shop here in Houston(for too much money for me) that has a distinctive blade usually only seen (in US) as a sword; Salampasu, I think; a sort of Etruscan looking thing.....