ETHIOPIAN, ANYONE?

Tim Simmons · 11th October 2006, 05:18 PM

My rhino horn does not have this orange peel surface. I shall try to show this latter. I know some African cattle can have horns 32" long but they are hollow.

spiral · 11th October 2006, 05:27 PM

Thanks Louie, I am not confident enough to offer opionion on its side grain.

But yes the orange peel is just visible on the end grain. {crosscut like firewood logs.}

I can only say Tim what I have learnt from people who spends thousands of pounds on individual antique rhino horn carvings & who are not intrested in cow or buffalo horn , fakes of which riddle the market.

I am always happy to learn more though.

Spiral

Tim Simmons · 11th October 2006, 05:33 PM

Sorry

roanoa · 15th October 2006, 06:23 PM

Hi guys. Trying to keep this thread going. There's so much stuff. So, here are three Ethiopian daggers with "fancy" scabbards. They are actually no scabbards at all... Two daggers have their original leather scabbards; one (Hi, Derek) does not. All three daggers have been inserted into the metal sheaths that originally decorated the terminal portion of SWORD scabbards. I have found another dagger like these three. So I have actually documented this practise in four cases. It is unclear, at least to me, how sword furniture was used like this. Two theories: 1) the daggers were produced in this configurations by scabbard makers who had a surplus of these sheaths; 2) they were made using broken swords picked up as throphies on a battlefield. Any other guesses?

Tim Simmons · 15th October 2006, 08:05 PM

Abyssinia a fascinating area. The array of poorly documented weapons. From your previous thread we saw those lovely examples from the south with a sickle knife influence, then in this thread the European influence. Where does the eastern influence begin from Somalia and the Arabian peninsular? possibly with these knives. Is the shotel solely Abyssinian? I know we have seen an ebay purchase post here by Ariel, one of those curved sabers having the tangent at the scabbard tip with an eared grip. Are there Kaskara with Abyssinian marks? not including the straight European blades. lots of questions.

roanoa · 15th October 2006, 09:36 PM

Hi, Tim. Yes, the diversity of weapons found in Abyssinia is amazing. Local blades, European blades, Ind-persian and Arabian blades. LOTS of Kaskara in Abyssinia, either used as such (Ethiopia shares a very long border with Sudan and there is lots of ethnical overlapping) or re-hilted to traditional Ethiopian SEIFs. The opposite is also true. I posted a Kaskara that I believe to be Eritrean and asked for help with the translation, which is in Arabic, but no luck so far (under KASKARA NEEDS TRANLATOR). I will keep on posting "stuff" for your enjoyment. Ron

Bill M · 16th October 2006, 08:10 AM

Ron,

Here is my shotel. Have a neat scabbard also, not in pictures.

I have read that the long curved blade was for getting around an opponent's shield. Guess that would have been a surprise!

I think that the handle is rhino horn -- no wait, it is cow horn....er..Rhino? cow! gotta be rhino. have a couple of Uzo drinks and it could have come from an authentic 1952 Studebaker Commander

Comments, please, i would like to know more about these interesting swords and the people who made and used them.

roanoa · 16th October 2006, 07:42 PM

Hi Bill. EXCELLENT example of shotel. Nice curve. Hilt: COW. Everybody says that the shotel is curved so that one could go around the enemy's shield. Personally, I believe it's one of those myths that have been perpetuated and become gospel. First: not all shotels are curved enough to do that job. Second: I have several shotels and I have tried to do that only to find out that you really lack the power to strike. So, I believe it's a nice theory and I can see how people would go for it. I, for one, do not.

11th October 2006, 05:33 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Throwing knife for French and Belgian fans. Sorry Last edited by Tim Simmons; 11th October 2006 at 05:41 PM. Reason: wrong thread

15th October 2006, 06:23 PM	#4
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	Hi guys. Trying to keep this thread going. There's so much stuff. So, here are three Ethiopian daggers with "fancy" scabbards. They are actually no scabbards at all... Two daggers have their original leather scabbards; one (Hi, Derek) does not. All three daggers have been inserted into the metal sheaths that originally decorated the terminal portion of SWORD scabbards. I have found another dagger like these three. So I have actually documented this practise in four cases. It is unclear, at least to me, how sword furniture was used like this. Two theories: 1) the daggers were produced in this configurations by scabbard makers who had a surplus of these sheaths; 2) they were made using broken swords picked up as throphies on a battlefield. Any other guesses? Attached Images

16th October 2006, 08:10 AM	#7
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Ron, Here is my shotel. Have a neat scabbard also, not in pictures. I have read that the long curved blade was for getting around an opponent's shield. Guess that would have been a surprise! I think that the handle is rhino horn -- no wait, it is cow horn....er..Rhino? cow! gotta be rhino. have a couple of Uzo drinks and it could have come from an *authentic* 1952 Studebaker Commander Comments, please, i would like to know more about these interesting swords and the people who made and used them. Attached Images

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

11th October 2006, 05:18 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	My rhino horn does not have this orange peel surface. I shall try to show this latter. I know some African cattle can have horns 32" long but they are hollow.

11th October 2006, 05:27 PM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thanks Louie, I am not confident enough to offer opionion on its side grain. But yes the orange peel is just visible on the end grain. {crosscut like firewood logs.} I can only say Tim what I have learnt from people who spends thousands of pounds on individual antique rhino horn carvings & who are not intrested in cow or buffalo horn , fakes of which riddle the market. I am always happy to learn more though. Spiral

15th October 2006, 08:05 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Abyssinia a fascinating area. The array of poorly documented weapons. From your previous thread we saw those lovely examples from the south with a sickle knife influence, then in this thread the European influence. Where does the eastern influence begin from Somalia and the Arabian peninsular? possibly with these knives. Is the shotel solely Abyssinian? I know we have seen an ebay purchase post here by Ariel, one of those curved sabers having the tangent at the scabbard tip with an eared grip. Are there Kaskara with Abyssinian marks? not including the straight European blades. lots of questions.

15th October 2006, 09:36 PM	#6
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	Hi, Tim. Yes, the diversity of weapons found in Abyssinia is amazing. Local blades, European blades, Ind-persian and Arabian blades. LOTS of Kaskara in Abyssinia, either used as such (Ethiopia shares a very long border with Sudan and there is lots of ethnical overlapping) or re-hilted to traditional Ethiopian SEIFs. The opposite is also true. I posted a Kaskara that I believe to be Eritrean and asked for help with the translation, which is in Arabic, but no luck so far (under KASKARA NEEDS TRANLATOR). I will keep on posting "stuff" for your enjoyment. Ron

16th October 2006, 07:42 PM	#8
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	Hi Bill. EXCELLENT example of shotel. Nice curve. Hilt: COW. Everybody says that the shotel is curved so that one could go around the enemy's shield. Personally, I believe it's one of those myths that have been perpetuated and become gospel. First: not all shotels are curved enough to do that job. Second: I have several shotels and I have tried to do that only to find out that you really lack the power to strike. So, I believe it's a nice theory and I can see how people would go for it. I, for one, do not.