Help with newly posted Keris

VVV · 10th September 2006, 05:28 PM

Thanks Shahrial and David for your comments,

Shahrial, you are correct about the Batu Lapak.
I will change it in the description.
Maybe it was to early in the morning when I checked the Pamor

David, cost cutting sounds like a probable reason. But several of the ganja iras blades I have seen doesn't look over all as if the owner was out of funds.
I guess that there may be some mystical, symbolic meaning meaning why to do it. Just as you also seem to do.
I hope we will find the answer from some of the other forumites?

On the Pamor, as well as Dapur, descriptions I usually use Tammens.
And sometimes Ensiklopedi Keris.

On the Javanese influence I have used a Javanese Dapur description.
But most of the Keris I have seen with this form has been Minangkabau Keris.

The reason why I suspect it's not "usual" elephant ivory is because it doesn't look like the material in any of my other ivory hilts. And when I checked in some of the reference works I found hilts of partly resembling material described as molar or hippopotamus.
Earlier this year I had one of the senior European collectors visiting me and he also told me that several of my Sumatran hilts that I thought was made from elephant ivory actually were made from other kind of ivory.

Michael

VVV · 10th September 2006, 05:43 PM

Shahrial,

I forgot to ask why you don't like rattan bindings on the lower part of the sheath???

Michael

Alam Shah · 11th September 2006, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

... I forgot to ask why you don't like rattan bindings on the lower part of the sheath???

It's a personal preference, I guess.

I do have a feeling that sometimes, it is used to 'hide' a damaged portion. (Not in your case. But I've come across a few cases).

kai · 11th September 2006, 02:56 AM

Michael, that are really gorgeous keris!

Please post close-ups from different angles of the ivory? hulu - thanks!

Regards,
Kai

VVV · 11th September 2006, 05:47 AM

Thanks Kai,

If you click on the link you will find additional pictures of the hilt.

Michael

kai · 11th September 2006, 09:29 PM

Hello Michael,

Thanks for getting me up to speed - that was a little too late at night...

I can't positively identify the hulu material from the nice pics - I'm pretty sure though that it's neither recent/fossil elephant molar (I can see no hints on the pics which would suggest this) nor hippo/walrus/dugong. If forced to, I'd probably bet at elephant ivory but only close examination under magnification will help to verify this. (I think the many microcracks (age?) kinda mask the regular ivory appearance you're more used to.)

Great piece and I also like the other one as much!

Regards,
Kai

VVV · 11th September 2006, 10:30 PM

Thanks Kai,

You have convinced me that I have to find a magnifying glass as well as learn some more on how to identify different kind of ivory.

Michael

11th September 2006, 05:47 AM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Kai, If you click on the link you will find additional pictures of the hilt. Michael Last edited by VVV; 11th September 2006 at 05:59 AM.

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10th September 2006, 05:28 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Shahrial and David for your comments, Shahrial, you are correct about the Batu Lapak. I will change it in the description. Maybe it was to early in the morning when I checked the Pamor David, cost cutting sounds like a probable reason. But several of the ganja iras blades I have seen doesn't look over all as if the owner was out of funds. I guess that there may be some mystical, symbolic meaning meaning why to do it. Just as you also seem to do. I hope we will find the answer from some of the other forumites? On the Pamor, as well as Dapur, descriptions I usually use Tammens. And sometimes Ensiklopedi Keris. On the Javanese influence I have used a Javanese Dapur description. But most of the Keris I have seen with this form has been Minangkabau Keris. The reason why I suspect it's not "usual" elephant ivory is because it doesn't look like the material in any of my other ivory hilts. And when I checked in some of the reference works I found hilts of partly resembling material described as molar or hippopotamus. Earlier this year I had one of the senior European collectors visiting me and he also told me that several of my Sumatran hilts that I thought was made from elephant ivory actually were made from other kind of ivory. Michael

10th September 2006, 05:43 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Shahrial, I forgot to ask why you don't like rattan bindings on the lower part of the sheath??? Michael

11th September 2006, 02:56 AM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Michael, that are really gorgeous keris! Please post close-ups from different angles of the ivory? hulu - thanks! Regards, Kai

11th September 2006, 09:29 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Michael, Thanks for getting me up to speed - that was a little too late at night... I can't positively identify the hulu material from the nice pics - I'm pretty sure though that it's neither recent/fossil elephant molar (I can see no hints on the pics which would suggest this) nor hippo/walrus/dugong. If forced to, I'd probably bet at elephant ivory but only close examination under magnification will help to verify this. (I think the many microcracks (age?) kinda mask the regular ivory appearance you're more used to.) Great piece and I also like the other one as much! Regards, Kai

11th September 2006, 10:30 PM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Kai, You have convinced me that I have to find a magnifying glass as well as learn some more on how to identify different kind of ivory. Michael