Comments?

Naga Sasra · 6th February 2005, 02:18 AM

I believe I have had the pleasure to inspect this handle in person, thank you Mick.
From what I remember it is correctly identified as from Jawa made in the 16-17th century based upon a model that date back to the Central Javanese Hindu era (about 9th century)
I also seem to remember it had a core of resin and was covered in high karat gold foil. The attribute in the right hand is the club, which points to Raden Bima. The cone shape on the socket also suggest that the item is missing the selut.
Either way it is a great piece of history. Thank you for sharing this with us all.

For the forum members that are seeking written information on keris handles, may I suggest Keris-Griffe by Martin Kerner, CH-3116 Kirchdorf, Switzerland

Alam Shah · 6th February 2005, 03:36 AM

Thanks for the reference, mate.

Will check it out before further comment.

John · 6th February 2005, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra

The attribute in the right hand is the club, which points to Raden Bima.

Good to see an "old boy" speak as always...

Am I right to assume this Raden Bima is the second of the Pandawa brothers of the Mahabarata epic (Yudhistira, Bima, Arjuna, Nakula and Sahadewa)? Don't quite recall the club attribute.

Naga Sasra · 6th February 2005, 12:57 PM

John, you are absolutely correct, Bima is the second of the Pandawa brothers. He is shown as an armourer in the relief of Candi Sukuh among other places.
He has been iconized in many different ways with attribute in his right hand (sword or club) or no attribute at all, he has also been shown with or with out a hair bun and with or without long thump nails, sitting, squatting or standing.

For more information I suggest “Keris-Griffe aus Museen und Privatsammlungen” by Martin Kerner. It is written mostly in German but with some English translations.

Oh John, thanks for the “old boy” attribution

nechesh · 6th February 2005, 04:00 PM

Sorry guys, you are losing me here.

I don't understand the connection being made between this raksasa ukiran and Raden Bima. Why would one of the Pandawa brothers be depicted as a demon. I also do not see the club Naga Sasra is talking about depicted in the right hand of this hilt. Isn't the figure just holding his knees. My understanding of the raksasa is that they are a class of demons, devouring giants, not just one identifiable deity. Am i wrong?

Rick · 6th February 2005, 06:03 PM

Joining Nechesh in his confusion .

This would be Bima ?

Alam Shah · 6th February 2005, 06:25 PM

Joining the confusion...Have a look at Cirebon hilts. This is raksasa kerdil.

Another reference link.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/taman.sari/k...north_java.htm

John · 7th February 2005, 02:03 AM

Rick, is your example an affirmative Bima?

Erik and Alam Shah, thanks for puttings things on the table. Figurines as such are fascinating but references have been vague it seems. So as it is; Bima or Raksasa Kerdil? or what?

6th February 2005, 03:36 AM	#2
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Thanks for the reference, mate. Will check it out before further comment. Last edited by Alam Shah; 6th February 2005 at 04:29 PM.

6th February 2005, 06:03 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Joining Nechesh in his confusion . This would be Bima ? Attached Images

6th February 2005, 06:25 PM	#7
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Reference link. Joining the confusion...Have a look at Cirebon hilts. This is raksasa kerdil. Another reference link. http://perso.wanadoo.fr/taman.sari/k...north_java.htm

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6th February 2005, 02:18 AM	#1
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	I believe I have had the pleasure to inspect this handle in person, thank you Mick. From what I remember it is correctly identified as from Jawa made in the 16-17th century based upon a model that date back to the Central Javanese Hindu era (about 9th century) I also seem to remember it had a core of resin and was covered in high karat gold foil. The attribute in the right hand is the club, which points to Raden Bima. The cone shape on the socket also suggest that the item is missing the selut. Either way it is a great piece of history. Thank you for sharing this with us all. For the forum members that are seeking written information on keris handles, may I suggest Keris-Griffe by Martin Kerner, CH-3116 Kirchdorf, Switzerland

6th February 2005, 12:57 PM	#4
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	John, you are absolutely correct, Bima is the second of the Pandawa brothers. He is shown as an armourer in the relief of Candi Sukuh among other places. He has been iconized in many different ways with attribute in his right hand (sword or club) or no attribute at all, he has also been shown with or with out a hair bun and with or without long thump nails, sitting, squatting or standing. For more information I suggest “Keris-Griffe aus Museen und Privatsammlungen” by Martin Kerner. It is written mostly in German but with some English translations. Oh John, thanks for the “old boy” attribution

6th February 2005, 04:00 PM	#5
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Sorry guys, you are losing me here. I don't understand the connection being made between this raksasa ukiran and Raden Bima. Why would one of the Pandawa brothers be depicted as a demon. I also do not see the club Naga Sasra is talking about depicted in the right hand of this hilt. Isn't the figure just holding his knees. My understanding of the raksasa is that they are a class of demons, devouring giants, not just one identifiable deity. Am i wrong?

7th February 2005, 02:03 AM	#8
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Rick, is your example an affirmative Bima? Erik and Alam Shah, thanks for puttings things on the table. Figurines as such are fascinating but references have been vague it seems. So as it is; Bima or Raksasa Kerdil? or what?