Identification of keris hilt

[Sang Keris]

a pair of majapahit ceremonial keris... just for example....


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[Alam Shah]

Sang Keris,
Thanks for your example, but different from my type....
Any comments on my piece?

[empu kumis]

Hello Kerislovers,

especially on this kind of "keris" we have a lot of stories (donggeng) but no written records nor pictures on sculptures. The story this pieces has been used for the ceremony of "bersih Desa" or for offerings could not be verified. The most examples coming to musea all over the world was in the 19th century. There is no evidence for an old age at all. So far i know there was no metallurgical research or archaeological proof. Ther has been so many speculation and the topic goes on and on. Its an never ending fruitless story.

I know and have seen with my own eyes this pieces are still forged as almost massproduction as other new kerisses too. Sometimes I read about to give them an appraisal for a special tangguh ? Just Nonsense !! The small shops still selling new keris sajen because many people belief in their value as talisman !!!
I would be very thankful if somebody of you fellow forumites could tell me more. But please something i could have a proof.

Regards

empu kumis

[Sang Keris]

well , i mean

i mean that's the basic model of keris sajen , shahrial...

[Mans]

hi dear all,

I look a beautifull keris Sajen was posted in this thread, nice keris. Good sculptures hilt. The Keris Sajen have many kind of carved hilt. But, these have a same type, that is a man.

Like Empu Kumis said, that the story this pieces has been used for the ceremony of "bersih Desa" or for offerings could not be verified. So that, the keris like this is not for Talisman. It just a prerequirement for the ceremonny. So that many smith in every period of kingdom was producted this keris, in fact, still production by now.
After the ceremonial or event, this keris can be throw away in the river or hide away at wet rice field. The meaning is, keris Sajen can't be called as a Keris Mojopahit or Tangguh Majapahit.

If need to try to know how old the keris like that, we can look an iron and pamor work, so that we can to give them an appraisal for tangguh. But, for the hilt carved, we just can speculation. That is old or new made.

Regards,
Mans
p.s : another kind of Keris Sajen hilt

[Alam Shah]

nechesh,
That's what confuses me as well. It's not a keris sajen as per se. It hilt looks like a different piece than the blade. The hilt cannot be removed and the blade is a typical keris blade unlike a keris sajen type, which is one piece.

I'll take more pictures and post it here, once the piece is returned after upacara Suro' (traditional javanese cleaning).

[Alam Shah]

Attached is the blade for comment...

[nechesh]

I am a little confused about the first two examples here. Are these hilts one piece with the blade like keris sajen are or are they seperate? Aside from these hilts the wilah look like a regular keris blade. Regardless of their origins these hilts do look interesting and if indeed the oldest examples of these keris is only 19thC as Empu Kumis suggests they still qualify as an ethnographic item worthy of study and collection.

Empu Kumis wrote: "I know and have seen with my own eyes this pieces are still forged as almost massproduction as other new kerisses too. Sometimes I read about to give them an appraisal for a special tangguh ? Just Nonsense !! The small shops still selling new keris sajen because many people belief in their value as talisman !!!"

But E.K., it is precisely that power of people's belief which makes an item a valid talisman.