Definitive Warfare

[Ian]

Mabagani:

History supports what you say about the Bates Treaty (no disrespect to Rick's ancestor). It was an American stalling tactic to avoid a further region of armed conflict until the fighting with Aguinaldo and the Katipunan in the north had been settled. The U.S. apparently intended all along to return to the "Moro problem" if necessary.

Another point of note were the gross errors in translation of this treaty from English into Tagalog. The English version speaks of U.S. sovereignty over the Sulu Archipelago, while Tausug version speaks of the U.S. offering protection only. This echoed earlier discrepancies in the Spanish treaties with the Sulu Sultanate. Not surprisingly, these treaties have created an ongoing difference of opinion that has persisted into present times with Moro disputes over the Philippines Government's authority in that region.

Some of the bloody fighting on Jolo, especially under the command of "Black Jack" Pershing, was called into question even in the early 1900s. The high actual death toll at Bagsak (not 300 as officially reported but several thousand, many women and children) was known to U.S. authorities and did eventually come out more publicly. A U.S. Congressional Inquiry was called for to investigate possible atrocities, and I believe it was approved by a House vote, but hearings were never held. General Pershing went on to other things.

This is obviously a touchy subject for many who are sympathetic with the Moro position. Let's not go any further down that path, though, lest we stray into a political minefield and get this thread locked!

As far as prices going higher, I'm afraid you're right -- it has already happened.

Ian.

Originally Posted by MABAGANI

In this case, his war minister might have given the order, but the Sultan and Prime minister were more concerned with keeping the peace and survival of the population during this period. Panglima Hassan and his followers didn't want to pay their taxes so they isolated themselves on their mountain. The death toll at Bagsak was grossly under recorded, Moro families were known to fight together and die rather than surrender. I'd question if the facts were revealed would it have been considered a war crime.
Historically, in regards to duplicity, one could write the Bates Treaty was written by a general and approved by the president but meant to be broken, an instrument to forestall eventual war with the Moros until after the Philippine American War ended, which is exactly what happened, once it was declared over against the Katipunan, troops marched into the Moro territories in an unconstitutional undeclared war with Sultanates that were considered sovereign. There were whaler ships from the US trading in Moro waters in the 1700s and military expeditions asking permission to sail in the 1800s. Ever wonder why there are so many kris, barong, etc...floating around, but once they dry up of course the prices are going to go up, candidly speaking and without crypt.