Strange British Naval Sabre

[Cathey]

I originally viewed this sword as part of the Pitt Collection in the possession of the South Australian Museum at the time. This was on the 4th of August 2004, according to the pictures I took then. Recently the museum had made the decision to destroy the collection, however someone suggested they send it to an interstate auction house instead. No one in South Australia was alerted to this decision. Thankfully eventually the word got out, and I was able to secure this sword at auction.

I have never seen a guard like it and was hoping someone out there might have encounterd a similar example. It has GR and the British Coat of arms on the blade, sadly very faint now.

Cheers Cathey

[Will M]

That's a wonderful hilt. You would assume the original owner would have his portrait painted showing this sword?
What do you mean regarding a museum destroying a collection? Have people gone mad?

[Cathey]

Hi Will, yes in Australian museums have gone quiet mad. They will not exhibit anything that is not aboriginal despite the fact that we are supposedly a multicultural nation made up the descendents of immigrants from all over the world.

What is even more infuriating is that the museum in question invited the Heritage arms society to view the collection in 2004, yet when they were considering destroying it, didn’t even bother to contact the society.

Cheers Cathey

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Cathey

Hi Will, yes in Australian museums have gone quiet mad. They will not exhibit anything that is not aboriginal despite the fact that we are supposedly a multicultural nation made up the descendents of immigrants from all over the world.

What is even more infuriating is that the museum in question invited the Heritage arms society to view the collection in 2004, yet when they were considering destroying it, didn’t even bother to contact the society.

Cheers Cathey

I don't understand the guilt complex that leads to this kind of behavior.

[drac2k]

Ignorance, Stupity, & Manipulation ........

[Ian]

I don't know why this museum initially chose to destroy rather than sell off their "foreign" arms collection. However, Australian regulators and politicians are willing to go to extraordinary lengths to restrict ownership of any form of weapon by its citizens. There is a belief that tight control of ownership of weapons will restrict violent acts.

Unfortunately, violence plays out anyway. The most recent efforts to limit ownership of weapons has been a poorly crafted law in the State if Victoria that prohibits ownership of "machetes" unless one has a permit for such a weapon. The legal definition of a machete is so broad that it encompasses any large knife made at any time.

[adrian]

I couldn't agree more. I recently imported two British c1840 percussion single shot pistols. To my dismay the import permits I had from the Victorian Police was useless due to a new importation of hanguns law since 'Bondi'. Now a Home Affairs Firearms Import Permit is required - the only snag is that they have no pathway for antique hanguns in place yet, so playing the waiting game there. In this case they have sidelined a perfectly functional system and replaced it with a dysfunctional system.

I don't know why this museum initially chose to destroy rather than sell off their "foreign" arms collection.

It was due to their storage space being reduced and some things had to go, however that they could have even considered such destruction beggars belief and thank goodness that did not occur. I gather that other museum/s were given a chance to select important items prior to the remainder being sold by auction and so some items remain in public collections, where they are unlikely to ever be on display anyway......

[Lee]

I can't resist sharing this seen on BBC news today in conjunction with the transport of the Bayeux tapestry by British Museum Director Nick Cullinan:

... a museum would never do something that imperils an object in its care or collection.

So there is the standard of professional behavior in the field. I presume he has not heard about the workings of the South Australian Museum.

Personally I have benefited from the insane eccentricities of the Australian authorities regarding blades. Some Australian state decades ago forbade hanging swords on the wall in your own home. A collector was so distressed that he shipped his collection to his dealer in London to sell. My dealer too. Hence my collection came to include three original antique medieval swords, 11th to 13th century.

Something for me to appreciate about what happened about 250 years ago.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank goodness for you Cathey! While clearly the ignorance of 'authorities' and the totalitarian governments is abominable, I am keenly interested in this hilt.

It seems most likely one off of course and in line with the M1803 flank officers lionheads in theme, but with naval associated elements, so the period would be in accord. It would take a lot of research to find similar elements in a hilt similar but I think we can be fairly certain of a commission by a naval officer.

You have a formidable library so if your resources do not have anything similar, the only likely hope would be the huge corpus of auction catalogs.

Wonderful sword!

Best
Jim

[M ELEY]

Hello Cathy and bless you for saving this beautiful sword from the scrap-heap! I wish I had access to their 'trash' list!

Prior to the 19th century, naval powers of the world had no specific patterns or models of standard armament. Naval officers had free reign to carry whatever they saw fit, some choosing existing patterns of other military branches (such as infantry hangers, etc), while others of higher means often chose to either design their own swords or pick from patterns created by swordsmiths/merchants. In other words, your sword was made for a very wealthy officer of the highest rank and it is quite possible this sword design is either unique or very rare, coming from a small line of custom swords. If you take a look at the color plates in Gilkerson's "Boarders Away:With Steel", you will see a French example dating to the 1790's with an incredibly elaborate basket including 'nautical' items, cannons, anchors, etc. Maritime decorations, even on the more simple hangers, was a tip of the hat that they were naval and would thus appeal to any officer. These custom designs had no limit (see also Annis' "Naval Swords", plate 52 of an officer's sword shaped like a Nile crocodile, a fashionable item made shortly after Nelson's battle at the Nile). Yours is a true fighter and not some presentation piece. Again, congrats on a magnificent piece that could be one-of-a-kind!

[M ELEY]

Forgot to mention that I have seen these 'crossed fishes' before, but I can't rememebr for the life of me if they were on a sword hilt, part of a ship, etc. Sorry!

[Jim McDougall]

Capn, thank you so much for adding discussion on the sword Cathey has posted here, and your observations concerning the wonderful hilt. Your expertise on things maritime is well established, and as you note these kinds of themes and elements often might have been used in any number of nautical decoration contexts.

While it will take some researching, Im pretty sure either you or I might find some clues, but clearly they will likely be in some of the more obscure references....as this kind of esoterica typically exceeds the scope of the more standard references.

Well noted too on the 'fighting character' of this saber. While highly embellished hilts typically denote dress or ceremonial swords, the blade suggests the intent for combat use as required. As the lionhead (similar to British flank company officers M1803) suggests, this saber was in use in the notable period of British 'fighting sail' in the early years of the 19th c, 'in the time of Nelson'. This was a time of these kinds of elaborate decoration.

Though I share the outrage at these situations in the unfortunately misguided actions permeating society and governmental authorities, I would still like to focus on the weapons presented for discussion. These other concerns outside weapon discussion deserve their own threads where that focus can be maintained.

Thank you again Capn!

[Rick]

It's a beautiful thing to behold. I find myself puzzled about the identity of the two bars with loops attached to the hawser cable behind the dolphins' heads.
It's not ringing any bells with me; anybody have an idea about what those are supposed to represent?

[adrian]

I was wondering about those also. They perhaps represent yardarms with hoops for furled sails, in this case these provide practical support to the fragile parts of the hilt.

[CutlassCollector]

I thought they represented cannon.