Swedish m93 Finland?

Magey_McMage · 26th June 2026, 04:45 PM

Hi Tim, I can post a couple photos of the 2 1893s I own later today. But IIRC, at least one or both of them have similar signs of sharpening. Yours is a blade/scabbard match unlike mine, I know a whole lot of Swedish stuff was/is kept around long after the general period of swordsmanship so I don't want to make any assertations on where the sharpening on mine came about. I believe the quality is similar as far as looking rather crude, albeit mine have sets in the blade & some notches as well.

They are fantastic swords though. Despite the length and people saying they are too heavy, I am significantly shorter than a Swedish cavalryman and I find it quite easy to move around at around 1100g on mine last time I checked. US m/1913 and British 1908/12 are heavier but they are backweighted for thrusting. Even then, I find the 1893 to be better feeling in the hand. If anything, a bit more blade presence or a stiffer foible would make them better and more like the cavalry pallasch of old but for the late-period/final-generation of cavalry swords, I find it the clear winner compared to the French 1896, m1913, 1889, and 1908/12 and tied with the Chilean 1890 (though that is a curved blade & variable in length but I am grading off the 33-34" model).

On one of the scabbards, someone put enough chunky preservative lubricant inside that anytime I draw the blade it needs to be wiped off first. But it also means the sword has centuries of storage until it starts to age. Those scabbards are no joke either. Even among troopers scabbards it feels like one could use it as a makeshift bludgeoning tool quite effectively.

I have a scabbard-less 1893 officers with a 92cm (iirc) blade. Unfortunately, like the 1899 and officer models of the 1889 artillery and others, the double fuller blade is lacking compared to the troopers. Not unusable, but comparable to a Swiss 1899 or a German officer 1889 with the same double fuller thrust-and-cut feeling. I blame a lack of distal taper for it feeling 'dead' in the hand. From what I remember it is pretty much a straight bar of ~25-28mm by 6-8mm steel. I wonder if any officers had private purchase swords that were more martial in quality?

Tim Simmons · 26th June 2026, 04:54 PM

Hi, please add anything to push disscusion further. I did sport fencing for some years under a European champion, it is a big sword but even unmounted you can swing it around quite easily. I think these pretty darn good and the fact that I may have one that was used makes me even more happy. I think i got it cheap when thinking of other swords. I know British ww1 cavalry officer used troops swords but with better scabbards and fittings.

werecow · 26th June 2026, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magey_McMage

Despite the length and people saying they are too heavy, I am significantly shorter than a Swedish cavalryman and I find it quite easy to move around at around 1100g on mine last time I checked. US m/1913 and British 1908/12 are heavier but they are backweighted for thrusting. Even then, I find the 1893 to be better feeling in the hand.

Hah! I find mine to be the most unwieldable sword I own

(not counting a long hooded katar, the wielding of which will forever remain an unfathomable mystery

). It is very long and much too forward weighted for me.

I actually use holding it out at arms length as a training device for my forearm and shoulder strength, and I can barely hold it like that for more than 60 seconds... but in fairness I have fairly thin wrists and double jointed thumbs (flexible but comes at the cost of grip strength), and my upper body strength is generally not great. Also definitely not a Swedish giant.

I've never wielded either the US or the British though, so perhaps it is a matter of perspective.

Tim Simmons · 26th June 2026, 08:09 PM

It is heavy yes, but like rapier or epee in fencing point action is not dificult and you can slash with it. I think training would enable combatants to get used to control. However it is a cavalry sword and for that purpose very good. The sharpening of the off knuckle section you could use that cavalry flick cut that has a name to person I believe.

Victrix · 26th June 2026, 10:06 PM

Here is a an officer’s version (pallash). http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=30434&page=2 See post #34. My great uncle (see photo) served with the Royal Norrlands Dragoner (dragoons) regiment numbered K4 (k for kavalleri). They were based in Umeå in the North of the country. They wore dove blue-grey uniforms with orange collar patches. These swords are only sharpened for war and mine isn’t. It may well be that the sword in the post was sharpened for the Finnish civil war. Can’t see why it was sharpened otherwise. The sword was not worn but suspended in a frog from the saddle of the horse.

Tim Simmons · 27th June 2026, 10:43 AM

You now have that sword , how nice. As to the sharpening on my sword, for the most part I would say it has been done very nicely except for 16 cm which is 12cm from the hilt on the knuckle side of the blade where the file strokes have changed direction and a little deeper than the rest. If the sharpening is done in the field by a soldier you cannot expect it to be done by a skilled craftsmen with aesthetics in mind.

werecow · 27th June 2026, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

It is heavy yes, but like rapier or epee in fencing point action is not dificult and you can slash with it.

I am probably not using it right (I've only ever done modern fencing so I can only go by what I can feel from the weight distribution and what I know from some HEMA youtube channels), but I find point control very difficult. To me it feels nothing like the rapiers or epées I've handled. But admittedly my experience with military rapiers is somewhat limited.
I can see it being very effective at cleaving or stabbing through a target at speed from horseback though... assuming you have the grip strength to keep giving point. But if I ever had to defend myself with it on foot I would be so slow that I would certainly die.

Mine is a little bit heavier at 1190 grams, length is similar at 93cm. It's hard to imagine that making a huge difference though. I'm probably just too feeble.

Tim Simmons · 27th June 2026, 02:18 PM

Sure training would be needed.

Victrix · 27th June 2026, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werecow

I am probably not using it right (I've only ever done modern fencing so I can only go by what I can feel from the weight distribution and what I know from some HEMA youtube channels), but I find point control very difficult. To me it feels nothing like the rapiers or epées I've handled. But admittedly my experience with military rapiers is somewhat limited.
I can see it being very effective at cleaving or stabbing through a target at speed from horseback though... assuming you have the grip strength to keep giving point. But if I ever had to defend myself with it on foot I would be so slow that I would certainly die.

Mine is a little bit heavier at 1190 grams, length is similar at 93cm. It's hard to imagine that making a huge difference though. I'm probably just too feeble.

Look this sword was not made for fencing. It’s a pallasch. Think of it more as a heavy broadsword. It was used to stab and slash at the opponents as part of a cavallery shock. The photo below of Norrlands Dragoner clearly shows how the sword is attached to the saddle behind the mounted dragoons. The sword is so heavy it’s not even worn by the soldiers. The troopers carried rifles and when dismounted would use the rifles as infantry rather than the swords which were left on the horses.

Quite a few Norrland Dragoner served with the Swedish Volunteer Brigade i Finland in the Winter War against the Soviet Union. The sword in the post could possibly have been sharpened for that but more for symbolical reason as I can’t imagine it being used on the frontlines.

Tim Simmons · 27th June 2026, 05:19 PM

Great photo. The removal of the Swedish crown on the blade is symbolic as Sweden was officially neutral and supplying arms, also Finland although a Duchy under the Tzar is a republic and not fighting for Sweden. Skermish raiders. You can Mannerhiem with the sword saddle fixings in this photo.

Victrix · 27th June 2026, 05:34 PM

Yes I believe this must be a civil war photo. It was whites against reds (communists). The victory of the whites under Mannerheim led to Finland’s independence from Russia as a democratic republic. The civil war was very bitter unfortunately. I think you are right that the sword must have been sharpened for this war.

26th June 2026, 10:06 PM	#5
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 790	Here is a an officer’s version (pallash). http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=30434&page=2 See post #34. My great uncle (see photo) served with the Royal Norrlands Dragoner (dragoons) regiment numbered K4 (k for kavalleri). They were based in Umeå in the North of the country. They wore dove blue-grey uniforms with orange collar patches. These swords are only sharpened for war and mine isn’t. It may well be that the sword in the post was sharpened for the Finnish civil war. Can’t see why it was sharpened otherwise. The sword was not worn but suspended in a frog from the saddle of the horse. Last edited by Victrix; 26th June 2026 at 10:09 PM. Reason: Addition

27th June 2026, 10:43 AM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 6,032	You now have that sword , how nice. As to the sharpening on my sword, for the most part I would say it has been done very nicely except for 16 cm which is 12cm from the hilt on the knuckle side of the blade where the file strokes have changed direction and a little deeper than the rest. If the sharpening is done in the field by a soldier you cannot expect it to be done by a skilled craftsmen with aesthetics in mind. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 27th June 2026 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Spelling

27th June 2026, 05:19 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 6,032	Great photo. The removal of the Swedish crown on the blade is symbolic as Sweden was officially neutral and supplying arms, also Finland although a Duchy under the Tzar is a republic and not fighting for Sweden. Skermish raiders. You can Mannerhiem with the sword saddle fixings in this photo. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 27th June 2026 at 05:29 PM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

26th June 2026, 04:45 PM	#1
Magey_McMage Member Join Date: Sep 2025 Posts: 19	Hi Tim, I can post a couple photos of the 2 1893s I own later today. But IIRC, at least one or both of them have similar signs of sharpening. Yours is a blade/scabbard match unlike mine, I know a whole lot of Swedish stuff was/is kept around long after the general period of swordsmanship so I don't want to make any assertations on where the sharpening on mine came about. I believe the quality is similar as far as looking rather crude, albeit mine have sets in the blade & some notches as well. They are fantastic swords though. Despite the length and people saying they are too heavy, I am significantly shorter than a Swedish cavalryman and I find it quite easy to move around at around 1100g on mine last time I checked. US m/1913 and British 1908/12 are heavier but they are backweighted for thrusting. Even then, I find the 1893 to be better feeling in the hand. If anything, a bit more blade presence or a stiffer foible would make them better and more like the cavalry pallasch of old but for the late-period/final-generation of cavalry swords, I find it the clear winner compared to the French 1896, m1913, 1889, and 1908/12 and tied with the Chilean 1890 (though that is a curved blade & variable in length but I am grading off the 33-34" model). On one of the scabbards, someone put enough chunky preservative lubricant inside that anytime I draw the blade it needs to be wiped off first. But it also means the sword has centuries of storage until it starts to age. Those scabbards are no joke either. Even among troopers scabbards it feels like one could use it as a makeshift bludgeoning tool quite effectively. I have a scabbard-less 1893 officers with a 92cm (iirc) blade. Unfortunately, like the 1899 and officer models of the 1889 artillery and others, the double fuller blade is lacking compared to the troopers. Not unusable, but comparable to a Swiss 1899 or a German officer 1889 with the same double fuller thrust-and-cut feeling. I blame a lack of distal taper for it feeling 'dead' in the hand. From what I remember it is pretty much a straight bar of ~25-28mm by 6-8mm steel. I wonder if any officers had private purchase swords that were more martial in quality?

26th June 2026, 04:54 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 6,032	Hi, please add anything to push disscusion further. I did sport fencing for some years under a European champion, it is a big sword but even unmounted you can swing it around quite easily. I think these pretty darn good and the fact that I may have one that was used makes me even more happy. I think i got it cheap when thinking of other swords. I know British ww1 cavalry officer used troops swords but with better scabbards and fittings.

26th June 2026, 08:09 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 6,032	It is heavy yes, but like rapier or epee in fencing point action is not dificult and you can slash with it. I think training would enable combatants to get used to control. However it is a cavalry sword and for that purpose very good. The sharpening of the off knuckle section you could use that cavalry flick cut that has a name to person I believe.

27th June 2026, 02:18 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 6,032	Sure training would be needed.

27th June 2026, 05:34 PM	#11
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 790	Yes I believe this must be a civil war photo. It was whites against reds (communists). The victory of the whites under Mannerheim led to Finland’s independence from Russia as a democratic republic. The civil war was very bitter unfortunately. I think you are right that the sword must have been sharpened for this war.