eBay "liquidated" my antique blade!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by JeffS

Keep your eye on Ebay, there are companies that sell these confiscated items on Ebay using the original photos and description and price structure - it may pop up again.

Hi Jeff,

I never noticed this, I know that you can't post it here at the forum regarding the forum rules but can you show me examples by pm?

Regards,
Detlef

[Rafngard]

Originally Posted by Sajen

I never noticed this, I know that you can't post it here at the forum regarding the forum rules but can you show me examples by pm?

I am also curious about this.

Thanks,
Leif

[kahnjar1]

It has been quite some time since I imported anything from the US but I NEVER would use the Global Shipping offered by Ebay as I found it too expensive and also unreliable. I always used USPS which never gave me any trouble and was always cheaper. Some sellers who use Global will not send by any other means but it is always a good idea to ask if they will send USPS.
Stu

[tom22]

Ive sold two fijian clubs on ebay from the uk to the us , both through the global shipping program and both were seized , both me and the buyer were refunded , and then three weeks later they turned up on ebay again ,and still had my original photos and description , after reporting this numerous times to ebay nothing happened and eventually they sold ,
they were expensive clubs too ,one sold for £2400 ,
Ive never trusted ebay since ,
scandals

[Interested Party]

I had a Sumatran keris disappear on eBay 2 years ago. The blade was ok. The silver sleave on the sheath was beat up, but I really wanted the north Java hilt! I'm still sad and pissed! They sent me a WWII German bayonet instead and tried to claim ignorance. Scandals!

[Bryce]

G'day Adam,
I am a fellow Queenslander. I don't know how you were even able to complete the purchase on Ebay. Buying anything even vaguely related to edged weapons (even books) on Ebay is now a nightmare and requires lots of back and forth with the seller to remove any mention of the word knife/sword. It has been a few years now, but the last three times I bought swords from the US they never made it out of the country. I have given up buying anything from the US now.
Cheers,
Bryce

[adamb]

Originally Posted by Bryce

G'day Adam,
I am a fellow Queenslander. I don't know how you were even able to complete the purchase on Ebay. Buying anything even vaguely related to edged weapons (even books) on Ebay is now a nightmare and requires lots of back and forth with the seller to remove any mention of the word knife/sword. It has been a few years now, but the last three times I bought swords from the US they never made it out of the country. I have given up buying anything from the US now.
Cheers,
Bryce

G'day Bryce, now that you mention it, I remember one time I was unable to purchase or bid on another edged weapon (again, a keris) on eBay from a seller in New South Wales; as with you, eBay would not allow me to complete the purchase. From memory, however, there was no issue of this kind with actually purchasing the US keris on eBay. I can't explain why, but I did acquire a US address through a freight forwarding service and updated my ebay account accordingly, so maybe that helped (although I used my Australian address as shipping address in that instance).

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by tom22

Ive sold two fijian clubs on ebay from the uk to the us , both through the global shipping program and both were seized , both me and the buyer were refunded , and then three weeks later they turned up on ebay again ,and still had my original photos and description , after reporting this numerous times to ebay nothing happened and eventually they sold ,
they were expensive clubs too ,one sold for £2400 ,
Ive never trusted ebay since ,
scandals

Hello Tom,

Who was the seller when the confiscicated clubs turned up again? And was international shipping offered?

Regards,
Detlef

[werecow]

Do we have any indication that the sellers actually had the seized items? Or did they just copy the ad in an attempt to scam buyers?

[A. G. Maisey]

I've been a bit puzzled by the eBay use of the word "liquidated".

In financial & asset management terms it means converting an item into cash --- more to it than this, but we're not at a seminar here.

So I decided to ask AI what eBay means when they use the term "liquidated".

Here is the answer:-

When eBay’s Global Shipping Program (GSP) or International Shipping advises an item has been "liquidated," it means the item was deemed ineligible for international transport at their hub, and rather than being returned to you, it was seized and sent to a third party to be resold or destroyed. This typically occurs due to customs issues, unexpected restrictions, or logistics errors.
Key Aspects of "Liquidated" in GSP/International Shipping
• Item Disposal: Liquidated items are generally not returned to the seller. They are sold, recycled, or destroyed by the logistics provider (Pitney Bowes) that manages the hub.
• Failed Export/Import: Despite the item appearing legal to you, the hub may have identified a restriction, hazardous material designation (e.g., restricted materials, aerosols), or a logistical bottleneck, leading to rejection.
• Your Protection: If tracking confirms the item reached the Kentucky hub (or equivalent center), you are protected. eBay takes responsibility for the item from that point forward, often issuing a refund to the buyer without deducting the amount from you.
• Action Required: Monitor the case and keep the tracking proof showing the item was delivered to the hub. If the buyer contacts you, direct them to contact eBay Customer Support directly for a refund through the GSP program.
Essentially, the item was confiscated, and you should be covered for the sale amount if the tracking shows it arrived at the hub.


So it would seem that it is not a very good idea to trust eBay whether one is a buyer or a seller.

Personally, I never liked eBay much and never sold the type of things that this Forum is concerned with on eBay, nor did I buy from eBay. Ever.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by Rafngard

I am also curious about this.

Thanks,
Leif

Me three.

[JeffS]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Jeff,

I never noticed this, I know that you can't post it here at the forum regarding the forum rules but can you show me examples by pm?

Regards,
Detlef

Sorry, examples are old and gone but should be easy to pull this one if re-posted with a search string based on confiscated example.

[Tim Simmons]

Uk ebay will not let you bid on anything listed with the word weapon in it. Will not let bid on swords or some knives.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by JeffS

Sorry, examples are old and gone but should be easy to pull this one if re-posted with a search string based on confiscated example.

Thank you Jeff! For this Adam need to post the keris with description and some pics.

Regards,
Detlef

[adamb]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Thank you Jeff! For this Adam need to post the keris with description and some pics.

Regards,
Detlef

G'day Detlef,

Here it is. Quite apart from the fact it is a wonderful old "Bugis/Malay" blade (Sumatran/Riau?) in excellent condition, it has an old paper label attached with the following inscription: "1809 Kriss Malais 490-".

Absolutely gutted to think US customs destroyed it, but I retain a (very) slim hope it might still be out there somewhere; in which case, I would greatly appreciate it if the VS forumites could keep an eye out for it.

With thanks, Adam

[A. G. Maisey]

Adam, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I very strongly suspect that we have ivory of one form or another as a component part of this keris?

If this is so, the decision to liquidate was probably based upon the ivory content rather than the weapon nature.

[adamb]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Adam, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I very strongly suspect that we have ivory of one form or another as a component part of this keris?

If this is so, the decision to liquidate was probably based upon the ivory content rather than the weapon nature.

Thanks Alan, in this case there was no mention of the hilt and buntut material in the seller's description on eBay; indeed the word 'ivory' did not appear in connection with the keris at all. I was of course hoping to be pleasantly surprised when it arrived, but from the seller's photos I could not be sure that the material was not bone or tridacna (although I believe the latter would also raise CITES issues), maybe even resin if very unluckly. It had occurred to me that US customs might seize it at the border if they inspected it and found it to be ivory, but I believed (no doubt naively) that the date of "1809" on the label would clearly show that the artefact long pre-dates the CITES agreement, and that I would be given the opportunity to make that case to US customs. Indeed, the keris was accompanied by a hard copy of paperwork proving that it had been acquired by the former owner in the early to mid 20th century.

Can anyone tell me what happens with CITES if a buyer acquires an antique from an overseas seller that they suspect/hope has an ivory component, when no mention of that is made by the seller in their description of the item?

[Sajen]

Dear Adam,

I have to say that you are either very naive and/or very uninformed! How could you possibly believe that you could import ivory (in this case, hippopotamus ivory) from one country (the USA) into another (Australia) without CITES papers?
If anyone can be held responsible for the possible destruction of this beautiful Malay Keris, then—unfortunately—it is you. Sorry!

Regards,
Detlef

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23029

[A. G. Maisey]

Adam, in the case of your keris, it was probably inspected by PitneyBowes, the ivory component was identified and that was that. End of story.

However, once Customs gets involved the outcome can vary a lot, depending on country & the Customs officers concerned.

To ship ivory legally, most especially into the USA you can be faced with high expense for verification, state laws that ban everything that even looks like ivory, immense disregard for actual law, & more or less general arrogant & "I am the law" attitude. Then there is the inbuilt Catch 22.

I've looked at this import/export of ivory over a number of years --- like about 35 years --- and I have come to the opinion I will only sell ivory within Australia, & I do have quite a lot of very valuable ivory.

The USA position on ivory is so disastrous that an extremely well known researcher & international authority on the Javanese keris gave me his collection of ivory hilts because he was concerned that if he had given those hilts along with the rest of his collection, to the museum of his university, that eventually they would be destroyed.

When thinking about USA and ivory bans, or for that matter, bans on anything & the USA, it is perhaps a good idea to remember that products sourced from kangaroos are banned in at least California, I was advised by one of the leaders of this push to ban kangaroo leather & etc, that these bans were very necessary because the Australian Kangaroo was an endangered species.

This is the sort of people we are dealing with:- ignorance coupled with a total absence of logic & good top dressing of arrogance.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by adamb

G'day Detlef,

Here it is. …
Absolutely gutted to think US customs destroyed it, …

Adam, I have little doubt that the hilt, if inspected, would have triggered suspicions regarding CITES. That’s all they need to confiscate and destroy something…unless you have a “certificate of antiquity.” So sorry for this!

https://www.fws.gov/international-affairs/cites