1833 italian sabre.

[Tim Simmons]

My latest piece. I bought this as it was reletively affordable and looks good. Wester & Co so not later than 1883. Blade has seen some sort of use being rather sharp with a few nicks on the edge but clean and in good condition. I said affordable but the handle and the scabbard had been neglected some what and was way more rusty than I excpected. I know these are not that hard to take apart to refurbish however I just want to remove the rust and let the age show. I can say that I reached the very bottom of the elbow grease bottle and there was not another bottle to be had. Quit pleased with it now. Should of taken before and after photo. The pitting is acceptable to my mined. Marked W&Co and box with a / in it.

[Jim McDougall]

Nice Tim!! These are sort of the unattended corner of arms collecting in most areas, and while most attention is given to the same military history that has been constantly written on and focused on. Most never realize that Italy, bother before and after unification had pretty rich and complex military history.

The best book on these weapons is on the regulation arms by Calamendrei, I forget the title and I'll see if I can get to it. My Italian is a bit rusty but it can be navigated through.

[Will M]

These swords display well. I have noticed many swords when taken a photo with scabbard beside the sword the blade can appear shortened. Sometimes the blade has been shortened and most times it's an illusion and the blade is full length. The photo here looks like the blade is shorter than the scabbard though pictures can be deceiving.

[Magey_McMage]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Nice Tim!! These are sort of the unattended corner of arms collecting in most areas, and while most attention is given to the same military history that has been constantly written on and focused on. Most never realize that Italy, bother before and after unification had pretty rich and complex military history.

The best book on these weapons is on the regulation arms by Calamendrei, I forget the title and I'll see if I can get to it. My Italian is a bit rusty but it can be navigated through.

I believe Storia dell'Arma Bianca Italiana is the title. I've taken to listing reference books as christmas and birthday present requests as they are in a good spot of being not too expensive but affordable for present-level gifts, and they are actually useful for my own hobbies as opposed to the endless shirts I will never wear. Still looking for a copy of my own & unwilling to pay scalper prices.

I would be remiss without mentioning Matthew Forde's La Sciabola, which you can access via the internet with a 1-time-fee as well as a physical copy he occasionally has for sale. I owe him many sword photos when I get my army-in-waiting sent to me finally. It is in English with some photos in the back though more of a chronology of various patterns & tied to the Savoy history of unifying Italy. Would go so far as to say there is an implicit assumption the reader is mildly familiar with Italian sabres to begin with, or is able to supplement reading with google-fu, but that is by no means a criticism at large, just something to be aware of going in. From what I've learned over my brief tenure so far, the major roadblock in reprints and new books is less the information and more museum copyright laws for the photos listed which makes it quite difficult.

What is the most impressive element of the 1833 pictured above, to me, is that it has retained the throat of the scabbard! Not sure why those were such high priority thefts and only for Italian swords.

[corrado26]

two very useful books on Italian arms are these volumes 1&2

[Magey_McMage]

Originally Posted by corrado26

two very useful books on Italian arms are these volumes 1&2

Any recommendations for Neapolitan/Southern States & Papal States reference guides? I'd consider myself more knowledgeable than most on those types but even for me there's a whole lot of "yeah I have no idea, it's definitely Italian but isn't a Savoy pattern so let's just go with Naples/Kingdom of 2 Sicilies" for most. I have what Czernys sold as a Papal States sword a year ago that has one of those revolutionary French type of elegant brass guards with the s curves, but could only trace the provenance back to a previous auction for the same sword, and other examples seem to be closer to broad pattern guidelines without official regulations.

I did just win what appears to be a Wilkinson made 1834 Guides Regiment sword from Czernys. Blade has British markings & no proof disc, but the 5 bars of the guard and the checkered thumb rest on the backstrap & other details all seem to back up this being 100% English made but for the Guides. If it IS Wilkinson, I would be able to trace the s/n and see who ordered it. We know Garibaldi had multiple British sabres including what appears to be an 1857 Royal Engineers pattern. Very excited to receive that along with all the others in my army-in-waiting!

[Will M]

Your Guides regt sword must have been misidentified. The blade type was not used by officers this early on, not until 1845. The sword sadly is not a Wilkinson. I don't see the Guide connection.
The sword is an interesting example having a post 1845p British Blade with a for lack of better naming, a Continental hilt. There must be an interesting story behind it. Officers were attached to other countries armies and this sword may be a result of that.
I would be interested to see the auctioneers description for a better understanding