Bali Keris for Comment

RobT · 12th April 2026, 05:16 PM

Hi All,

I bought this Bali keris a while ago (uwer added by me). I think the dapor and pamor are both very nice. Save for the broken last piece of grenning on the aring side, the blade is in pretty good shape. I think the blade and sheath are older than the hilt which I believe to be made of suar wood (AKA monkey pod or Rain tree, Saman Samanea). I would appreciate forum members opinions and observations so I can tell whether or not my evaluations are accurate. Can anyone id the pamor?

Sincerely,
RobT

A. G. Maisey · Yesterday, 12:07 AM

This is pretty fair old keris Rob, the blade could do with a bit of a clean, but I would probably not go gangbusters on it, the pamor is quite readable, there does not appear to be any excessive active rust, maybe just a good soak in WD40 might be sufficient.

At times I’ve worked over a blade in this sort of condition and picked the rust out of the pitting with a needle, I use a saddlers awl with a fine needle, & under bright light & sometimes magnification.

I cannot see any breaks in the greneng, could you clarify please? Maybe the last bit of greneng in the wadidang is a remnant of a broken piece, but the image is not clear on my screen.

The hilt would be referred to in Bali/Jawa as “pelet” wood : “kayu pelet” & possibly as timoho.

I would give the pamor as ilining warih/banyu mili/air mengalir/flowing water.

One face of the blade has been forged more heavily than the other, & this has resulted in the central part of the pamor on that face as presenting as wusing wutah/ujan baas/beras wutah/beras utah/wos wutah/scattered rice grains, however, ilining warih was clearly intended, so it should be named as the maker intended, rather than as it finished up. It is a not a different pamor on each face, only one side was not as well managed as the other.

In Bali the form (dhapur) of a keris is not as strictly regulated, nor taken note of, as in Jawa, however, I would probably give this keris as Durgam Pinis, luk 11. I cannot translate this name, "durgam" seems to indicate "dangerous" or "immoral" , "pinis" is actually one of the woods used in woodcarvings.

I am naming this dhapur in accordance with present day practice of the most influential Balinese keris literate people, & I would not challenge any other name given by somebody else. In Jawa all this nomenclature thing is pretty much defined , in Bali it is much more relaxed.

Gustav · Yesterday, 08:19 AM

Yes, the first element of Greneng is broken.

As I understand, a sheath of such proportions, with a slender crosspiece, could likely be attributed to Northern Bali.

A. G. Maisey · Yesterday, 08:46 AM

I'm using a decent screen now, & I can see that there is a little stump in the middle of the wadidang, this is a very minor defect and in Bali it would be cleaned up the first time the keris was placed with a m'ranggi for clean & stain.

Yes, that style of sampiran (the top cross piece of the scabbard) is usually attributed to North Bali, specifically Singaraja. The style is called " gegodohan".

However, a camera angle can alter perception, & there is very little difference between some bebatun pohan styles, & this particular gegodohan style, there are several styles of each of these types of sampiran. It can be quite difficult sometimes make a correct judgement from a photo. It is a similar problem with the bebelatungan style, in a photo it is sometimes difficult to differentiate between bebatun pohan & bebelatungan.

RobT · Today, 12:04 AM

A. G. Maisey,
I’m glad my assessment was basically correct. Thanks for the pamor and dhapur info plus the cleaning advice. I think I’ll stick with the WD40 soak.

Gustav,
The Northern Bali info is valuable and I’m glad A. G. Maisey added the name gegodohan. I have another Bali keris with a really narrow sampiran (which means boat and is the Balinese term for the Javanese wranka?). I will post a picture of that keris with this response because I would like to know if it also qualifies as gegodghan and if the hilt can be called cenegan.

Sincerely,
RobT

A. G. Maisey · Today, 04:24 AM

Yes, I believe that in this case WD40 might be the way to go.

Rob, you've addressed a couple of questions to Gustav and I will refrain from providing a response to those questions.

However, I would be interested to learn where you sourced the name "cenegan" & where you heard that "sampiran" means boat, & that it is the Balinese term for a warangka/ wrangka/ wrongko.

Gustav · Today, 10:31 AM

RobT, by "Cenegan" you obviously mean Cenangan. Terminology depends on time and the linguistic/social group, that uses that terminology. My feeling at the moment is, term "Cenangan"could be something of an umbrella term for simpler hilts of related form, and possibly could be not older then 100 years, likely younger. This particular hilt looks quite like a Tapukan which has lost its hair wrapping and subsequently lacquered.

The term Sampiran - do Balinese really use it nowadays? If yes, I doubt, they do for longer then about 30 years at most, as it quite surely comes from peninsular Malay Keris community/English language writers about Keris from Malay states. The boat/ship iconology in the cross piece of sheath is stressed all the time, but word Sampir doesn't have such connotation.

According to Neka the cross piece of this second Keris would be Gegodohan, as Neka in his book seems not to distinguish between Gegodohan and Bebelatungan - he even don't use word Bebelatungan.

I am not sure, the crosspiece and the long part originally belong together, as the proportion seems to be a bit off.

Alan, what is the difference between Bebatun Pohan and Bebelatungan in your opinion?

12th April 2026, 05:16 PM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 631	Bali Keris for Comment Hi All, I bought this Bali keris a while ago (uwer added by me). I think the dapor and pamor are both very nice. Save for the broken last piece of grenning on the aring side, the blade is in pretty good shape. I think the blade and sheath are older than the hilt which I believe to be made of suar wood (AKA monkey pod or Rain tree, Saman Samanea). I would appreciate forum members opinions and observations so I can tell whether or not my evaluations are accurate. Can anyone id the pamor? Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

Today, 12:04 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 631	Thanks for the Info A. G. Maisey, I’m glad my assessment was basically correct. Thanks for the pamor and dhapur info plus the cleaning advice. I think I’ll stick with the WD40 soak. Gustav, The Northern Bali info is valuable and I’m glad A. G. Maisey added the name gegodohan. I have another Bali keris with a really narrow sampiran (which means boat and is the Balinese term for the Javanese wranka?). I will post a picture of that keris with this response because I would like to know if it also qualifies as gegodghan and if the hilt can be called cenegan. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

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Yesterday, 12:07 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,198	This is pretty fair old keris Rob, the blade could do with a bit of a clean, but I would probably not go gangbusters on it, the pamor is quite readable, there does not appear to be any excessive active rust, maybe just a good soak in WD40 might be sufficient. At times I’ve worked over a blade in this sort of condition and picked the rust out of the pitting with a needle, I use a saddlers awl with a fine needle, & under bright light & sometimes magnification. I cannot see any breaks in the greneng, could you clarify please? Maybe the last bit of greneng in the wadidang is a remnant of a broken piece, but the image is not clear on my screen. The hilt would be referred to in Bali/Jawa as “pelet” wood : “kayu pelet” & possibly as timoho. I would give the pamor as ilining warih/banyu mili/air mengalir/flowing water. One face of the blade has been forged more heavily than the other, & this has resulted in the central part of the pamor on that face as presenting as wusing wutah/ujan baas/beras wutah/beras utah/wos wutah/scattered rice grains, however, ilining warih was clearly intended, so it should be named as the maker intended, rather than as it finished up. It is a not a different pamor on each face, only one side was not as well managed as the other. In Bali the form (dhapur) of a keris is not as strictly regulated, nor taken note of, as in Jawa, however, I would probably give this keris as Durgam Pinis, luk 11. I cannot translate this name, "durgam" seems to indicate "dangerous" or "immoral" , "pinis" is actually one of the woods used in woodcarvings. I am naming this dhapur in accordance with present day practice of the most influential Balinese keris literate people, & I would not challenge any other name given by somebody else. In Jawa all this nomenclature thing is pretty much defined , in Bali it is much more relaxed.

Yesterday, 08:19 AM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,321	Yes, the first element of Greneng is broken. As I understand, a sheath of such proportions, with a slender crosspiece, could likely be attributed to Northern Bali.

Yesterday, 08:46 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,198	I'm using a decent screen now, & I can see that there is a little stump in the middle of the wadidang, this is a very minor defect and in Bali it would be cleaned up the first time the keris was placed with a m'ranggi for clean & stain. Yes, that style of sampiran (the top cross piece of the scabbard) is usually attributed to North Bali, specifically Singaraja. The style is called " gegodohan". However, a camera angle can alter perception, & there is very little difference between some bebatun pohan styles, & this particular gegodohan style, there are several styles of each of these types of sampiran. It can be quite difficult sometimes make a correct judgement from a photo. It is a similar problem with the bebelatungan style, in a photo it is sometimes difficult to differentiate between bebatun pohan & bebelatungan.

Today, 04:24 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,198	Yes, I believe that in this case WD40 might be the way to go. Rob, you've addressed a couple of questions to Gustav and I will refrain from providing a response to those questions. However, I would be interested to learn where you sourced the name "cenegan" & where you heard that "sampiran" means boat, & that it is the Balinese term for a warangka/ wrangka/ wrongko.

Today, 10:31 AM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,321	RobT, by "Cenegan" you obviously mean Cenangan. Terminology depends on time and the linguistic/social group, that uses that terminology. My feeling at the moment is, term "Cenangan"could be something of an umbrella term for simpler hilts of related form, and possibly could be not older then 100 years, likely younger. This particular hilt looks quite like a Tapukan which has lost its hair wrapping and subsequently lacquered. The term Sampiran - do Balinese really use it nowadays? If yes, I doubt, they do for longer then about 30 years at most, as it quite surely comes from peninsular Malay Keris community/English language writers about Keris from Malay states. The boat/ship iconology in the cross piece of sheath is stressed all the time, but word Sampir doesn't have such connotation. According to Neka the cross piece of this second Keris would be Gegodohan, as Neka in his book seems not to distinguish between Gegodohan and Bebelatungan - he even don't use word Bebelatungan. I am not sure, the crosspiece and the long part originally belong together, as the proportion seems to be a bit off. Alan, what is the difference between Bebatun Pohan and Bebelatungan in your opinion?