GARDEN & SON - ROBt. S. GARDEN

[Will M]

A Garden LC sword, 29 Picedilly London.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Will,
Thank you for bringing back this thread! Fascinating topic, and recalling the years of such great discussions which offered outstanding insights with the collective knowledge shared!

It seems to me that 'Garden' in its varying names as a military outfitter was very much in attendance to the military in the Raj and earlier the East India Company. I recall seeing another book by the author Bob Brooker "British Military Pistols" which had various examples mentioning Garden Co. and it seems in particular some of the 'Poona' units.

I have long had a British M1821 light cavalry troopers sword by Reeves, which has triple digit numbers 111 on the blade spine .
I had always wondered if perhaps this was numbering in accord with the unit number in a contract? specific to the maker.
But later something suggested that supply to EIC had blades numbered?

It seems uncharacteristic for British sword makers to number the regular swords for troopers etc. (though we know that Wilkinson of course began serial numbers on officers swords in 1850s).

Also, interestingly Reeves had begun his new tang patent, and these became the sandwich type grip on the new M1853, so I wondered if this had some oblique association since it was by Reeves (this does not have the new tang so it is not transitional).

Perhaps I'm 'chasing zebras' here, but very curious.
What would these numbers mean?

Beautiful example sword you posted, especially to this supplier BTW!

All the best
Jim

[Will M]

Hi Jim, my "guess" that the numbers are just a control number for Garden.
I have a infantry sword with brass scabbard marked Garden with number 405 on the blade spine. Blade is etched with the officers initials RH but I've not found the name. It is a patent hilt and has Garden name etch with 29 Picedilly and Garden stamped on the blade spine.
The VR in the guard appears to be shot out. Possibly an interesting story behind it?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Will M

Hi Jim, my "guess" that the numbers are just a control number for Garden.
I have a infantry sword with brass scabbard marked Garden with number 405 on the blade spine. Blade is etched with the officers initials RH but I've not found the name. It is a patent hilt and has Garden name etch with 29 Picedilly and Garden stamped on the blade spine.
The VR in the guard appears to be shot out. Possibly an interesting story behind it?

Thanks Will! This is great and I think your idea of it being some sort of control number makes sense.
It seems odd that they would go to the trouble of stamping these numbers into the blade spine. Was it record keeping? and they kept records of swords sold to officers and clients?
While my example seems to be a troopers, rather than officers sword, as it is completely austere, no decoration or proof plug etc. perhaps it was that officers bought regular troopers swords as 'fighting' swords. It would seem they might defer taking their expensive and fancier dress and other swords on campaign .........though I think obviously there were exceptions.
Officers had carte blanch on most things, so it would seem possible.

Right you are on the shot out VR in the hilt! Definitely a story there!

[Jim McDougall]

Magey, thank you for the interesting links and info.
It is most interesting to think of this firm tailored to the adventurers, explorers and dynamic characters of the times in 19th century Great Britain, and makes sense. While obviously they did supply swords and guns to officers, it seems the primary clientele were aligned with many of the irregular units in the Raj.
As these were basically private units aligned with the East India Company in the years prior to the Mutiny, the demographic of the men would seem to correspond to 'adventurers', who were not military but functioned well in para-military contexts.

It seems most of the guns, swords associated with units of the Scinde Irregular Cavalry, and Poonah Horse, are most regularly seen. I have always thought the Howdah pistols were pretty fascinating, as well as the Jacob's rifle, which was invented by Brig.Gen. John Jacob EIC. He was with the Scinde Horse, and created this powerful rifle which was accurate for miles and with exploding rounds in one barrel. These were often termed 'elephant rifles'.
They were made by Swinburne and several others, not sure if Garden ever handled them.

[Magey_McMage]

Hello, I have information on a couple other Garden & Son swords. The first is one I won at auction but have yet to receive. Unusual in that it is a Pillin proof disc with a rarely seen etching around it, also that it is a folding guard (now broken) patent solid hilt. A bit like having a court sword hilt with a broadsword blade. Link here to the auction as I am on my phone and do not want to reformat the webp as jpgs:

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...8-b38b00dfbe8f

The latter with attached images is one I know the current owners of, these are the auction photos. (It was listed on their store site before deciding to keep it) It is a lozenge/lenticular sabre blade, so no fullers, almost a flat solid but think more of a boat tailed spitzer bullet. It is also a patent solid hilt.

From what I can informally tell, Garden seemed to have a niche carved out not for the well heeled fanciest officers but more along the lines of the explorers and adventurers (or at least those who styled themselves as such). With the large howdah pistols and high end but generally more serious swords, it is no Hamburger Rogers & Co or Hawkes but for those expecting violence and adventure on the frontier. Reminds me of the old Abercrombie & Fitch around the turn of the 20th century which was a much different time.

I am not on below forum and please let me know if I need to remove this but there is also a small discussion as seen here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/brit...rd-t29109.html

And below are links to various other things that have their retailer name attached to them:
-https://bid.candtauctions.co.uk/lot-details/index/catalog/208/lot/67211/Victorian-officer-s-mameluke-sword-by-GARDEN-SON-200-PICCADILLY-LONDON

-https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-7842

-https://www.michaeldlong.com/product/british-percussion-pistol-c-1864-by-r-garden-scinde-horse/

Please let me know if any of this is improper, I just figured I could add some further links of officers weapons and firearms. I agree with Jim McDougall here, they carried a very specific store style and appears to be popular for people in the know to seek them out specifically because of that reputation. The last link there is a .65 caliber or about 16.5mm. Needless to say they weren't in the business of making or selling weapons that would only graze the enemy!

[Will M]

Magey thanks for the links. The sword illustrated is very nice and has provenance which I believe most important!