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Pendita65 · Yesterday, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Martin, I understand you very well! I buy keris sometimes for parts only, wrongko, pendok, handle and mendak. And when the pendok is indeed from silver and the price was right, you did well!

Best,
Detlef

Thanks Detlef, and yes i also buy them for the materials sometimes to restore the other ones in need of some tlc.

Regards, Martin

A. G. Maisey · Yesterday, 08:03 PM

Yes Martin, the embossing could have been done in Jogjakarta, or at least by somebody working according to the principles of the Jogjakarta school, but the motifs & overall presentation is indicative of Banyumas, and the profile of this bunton pendok is acceptable for a Solo wrongko as well as a Banyumas wrongko.

The material used can only be determined by test.

Sajen · Yesterday, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

..& overall presentation is indicative of Banyumas, and the profile of this bunton pendok is acceptable for a Solo wrongko as well as a Banyumas wrongko.

Hello Alan,

Is there a significant difference between Solo and Banyumas wrongko?

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · Today, 02:30 AM

I guess the answer to that question is:- "significant to whom?"

At the present time, & for a long time in the immediate past it seems that the Surakarta style of wrongko, both gayam & ladrang, has dominated Javanese style. These Surakarta styles have become almost the Javanese generic style, and very often I find it difficult to know if I am looking at a true Surakarta wrongko, or a broadly Solo wrongko, or a generic wrongko that reflects elements of one of the dozen or so legitimate Surakarta gayaman forms or dozen or so ladrangan forms.

Banyumas never had the same level of authority that Surakarta & Jogjakarta had, it was established some time in the 1500's, and later its bupatis (regents) were appointed by Surakarta, so in many ways it did come under Surakarta influence, but it had its own language & sub-culture. Coming under Surakarta influence, it naturally followed Surakarta in dress styles, & this includes keris dress styles.

For me, the biggest single differentiating factor between Surakarta keris dress & Banyumas keris dress is the pendok, which usually has a curved top that rises above the joint between gandar and gambar (if that joint is present), the pendok motif is usually broken into panels as we can see in the keris under discussion. There are differences in the planar hilt style also, it is broadly the same as Solo styles, but usually has kruwingan work in panels that rise to the bun-bunan.

I have been told, but have not personally seen sufficient number of examples to confirm, that the Banyumas gambar is "like Solo, but not as refined", so it seems it is always a pretty subjective judgement & perhaps can only be relied upon from somebody with lengthy experience of both Solo & Banyumas wrongkos.

So --- I'd say that the difference between Surakarta wrongko & Banyumas wrongko would be quite significant to somebody in the Surakarta hierarchy who was a stickler for correct form, but for people with no real understanding of what was correct form, & what was not, any differences might be not significant at all.

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Yesterday, 08:03 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,133	Yes Martin, the embossing could have been done in Jogjakarta, or at least by somebody working according to the principles of the Jogjakarta school, but the motifs & overall presentation is indicative of Banyumas, and the profile of this bunton pendok is acceptable for a Solo wrongko as well as a Banyumas wrongko. The material used can only be determined by test.

Today, 02:30 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,133	I guess the answer to that question is:- "significant to whom?" At the present time, & for a long time in the immediate past it seems that the Surakarta style of wrongko, both gayam & ladrang, has dominated Javanese style. These Surakarta styles have become almost the Javanese generic style, and very often I find it difficult to know if I am looking at a true Surakarta wrongko, or a broadly Solo wrongko, or a generic wrongko that reflects elements of one of the dozen or so legitimate Surakarta gayaman forms or dozen or so ladrangan forms. Banyumas never had the same level of authority that Surakarta & Jogjakarta had, it was established some time in the 1500's, and later its bupatis (regents) were appointed by Surakarta, so in many ways it did come under Surakarta influence, but it had its own language & sub-culture. Coming under Surakarta influence, it naturally followed Surakarta in dress styles, & this includes keris dress styles. For me, the biggest single differentiating factor between Surakarta keris dress & Banyumas keris dress is the pendok, which usually has a curved top that rises above the joint between gandar and gambar (if that joint is present), the pendok motif is usually broken into panels as we can see in the keris under discussion. There are differences in the planar hilt style also, it is broadly the same as Solo styles, but usually has kruwingan work in panels that rise to the bun-bunan. I have been told, but have not personally seen sufficient number of examples to confirm, that the Banyumas gambar is "like Solo, but not as refined", so it seems it is always a pretty subjective judgement & perhaps can only be relied upon from somebody with lengthy experience of both Solo & Banyumas wrongkos. So --- I'd say that the difference between Surakarta wrongko & Banyumas wrongko would be quite significant to somebody in the Surakarta hierarchy who was a stickler for correct form, but for people with no real understanding of what was correct form, & what was not, any differences might be not significant at all.