Scottish basket hilt elements

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jim,
Second lot from Kelvingrove Museum, can't remember blade origins I'm afraid. Will try to get to Kelvingrove and retrieve more information as soon as I can.
Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jim,
My only Scottish broadsword discussed here http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...17thC+scottish
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Norman!! I knew I could count on ye!!!
These are so breathtaking, as are all basket hilts! It is so overwhelming seeing so many at once, though in looking at them I want to individually itemize the various features and elements to learn more on them.

I recall Dr. Mazansky when writing his book, was following the path of Nick Norman in categorizing the character of hilts by period and features. I was hoping for more historical background and perhaps developmental notes, but his work is profoundly useful in itemizing categoric forms and character of elements for discussion. His glossary of terminology and nomenclature is extremely useful.

Your example shown is amazing! and the blade fascinating as the running wolf is not widely seen on Scot blades and with ANNO etc. As noted, these are all 17th century German blades and interesting variations. I am trying to find the references noting the talismanic properties of these often familiar markings on blades. I have long believed personally that the 'running wolf' of Passau, later Solingen, was a talismanic marking placed on blades in these types of thinking.

I noticed one of the hilts was in brass. I had always thought the brass hilts came about in the Napoleonic period with the swords for officers in the Highland units. Apparently there were instances of brass hilts as early as 1721, possibly earlier, and the challenging weather up there often called for more durability in hilts, with japanning or browning common, so as with naval hilts for damp climates, brass seems understandable.
I think the only prohibition in using brass is the softness of the metal not standing up well in combative interaction.

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you Norman!! I knew I could count on ye!!!
These are so breathtaking, as are all basket hilts! It is so overwhelming seeing so many at once, though in looking at them I want to individually itemize the various features and elements to learn more on them.

Hi Jim,
I will try at get to Kelvingrove within the next two or three weeks and photograph the complete swords with the relevant info as per the museum description hoping to give you a bit more to go on.
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

Thats great Norman!!! I very much appreciate that! Im hoping to get together some sort of collective base of info on these, as for those few of us interested the references are hard to get, and even then answers are hard to find.
best,
Jim

Your excellent example, especially with unique blade, is an unusual form of Glasgow hilt, with the S element in place of shield. While often these types of elements have had attempts to distinguish them as representing 'Stirling' or even, 'Scotland, which is far too patronizing...they are noted as simply decorative shapes.
The page is from "Culloden: The Sword and the Sorrows" , which catalogues items of the 1996 exhibition.

The second from "Scottish Swords and Dirks" John Wallace, 1970, p.24 shows an example with interesting apparently earlier form with this feature as in second half 17th c. This suggests the development of these hilts likely further back than the turn of the century and that the Glasgow style pierced shields style likely began c 1680s-90s? being well evolved by the turn of the century into early years of 18th.
The 'S' would appear to be a carry over from the earlier hilts and likely among Glasgow's regional hammermen.

[urbanspaceman]

This is all great stuff Gents. Despite living on the border I have never been exposed to much info on Scottish weapons.
Actually, here in Newcastle, there is no real source of info on any of the weaponry that must have been in abundant use considering how many castles we have within a days' ride of here; probably more per capita than anywhere else on this planet.
Consequently, in trying to establish the provenance of the hilt on my Shotley Bridge broadsword blade, I was at a complete loss.
Norman, is Ralph still at Kelvingrove? He owes me an interview and I owe him a copy of my book. I may venture up there myself before the snow starts falling again.
Well done Chaps and thank-you.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Keith,
As far as I'm aware Ralph Moffat is still at Kelvingrove.
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Keith,
Glad you're in, as the northern English regions are not only a key factor in the production and development of the basket hilt, but the Border Reivers were keenly a part of the diffusion and use of these distinct swords. While the original 'CLOSE' hilts, that is developed hand guards made up of bars and plates/shields were in use in England as early as late 16th c.....it is primarily the evolution of the HIGHLAND forms we are focused on at this point.

I have added your fine example of what is regarded as the 'conventional' or 'traditional' form of Highland hilt, which is known as the GLASGOW style of hilt. It has been held (Whitelaw, 1934) that John Simpson, a Glasgow hammerman who was working 1683, becoming master in 1692, was the originator of what is now recognized as the 'Glasgow' form hilt.

These hilts with the bars holding shields forming the 'basket' became distinctively recognized by the pierced shields which had the designs with various shapes of hearts, circles and other forms in characteristic formations. There are other features which we will discuss later.

John Jr. his son was working by 1711.

There were two journeymen, JOHN ALLEN(1702) and James Allen (1706).
What is important here is that John Allen went to STIRLING by 1714, and here evolved the second form of Scottish basket hilts.

These were distinguished primarily from their notable departure from the conventional pierced plates, and into more elaborately designed elements of the basket structure. These often incorporated not only artistic designs, but many features including Jacobite symbolism.
John had two sons, Walter and John who later worked in Stirling as well.

Most notable about these men is that they developed a unique way of signing their hilts, which was how Whitelaw identified and was able to categorize these hilts basic forms.

With this, we can see that the GLASGOW form hilt must have evolved around the 1680s with John Simpson. It is notable that he and the others listed seem to have been the only slippers who signed their work (initials) aside from one or two other cases.

So with Keiths sword, the 'Glasgow' hilt seems likely mid to late 1690s possibly later into early years of 1700s.

My question/theory? is, could John Simpson Sr. have developed the guard system while he working toward his mastership in 1680s? Using the known elements from the long extant 'ribbon or beaknose' hilt with wide curving bars and the variously structured bars of earlier English forms circulating, perhaps he created the use of consistently placed shields. He then may have embellished these with the piercings which became rather a trademark style.

I would note here that the otherwise 'standard' Glasgow hilts which factor in the S shape element (as in Normans example posted earlier), seem to have been a likely variant used by other hammermen in Glasgow regions in the period from turn of century into early 18th.

Another important development here with the Glasgow hilt, as seen with Keiths example, is the notably extended 'wrist guard' (backward) which as per Whitelaw was added in latter years of 17th into early 18th. This feature was to protect the wrist from the sawing cut often used in Highland swordsmanship. This does not seem to be included in the basket hilts of Stirling and lowland forms.

Going to the blade....clearly a Shotley Bridge 'Oley' example, and from 1680-90, with the familiar bushy tail fox (BTF), it seems evident that blades from these Newcastle regions were in circulation into Scotland as well as into England. It has been of course plausibly, if not compellingly noted that the Shotley conduit was a key center for Jacobite sword supply.

I have wondered if Shotley was indeed a point of entry for the immense numbers of German blades who supplied Scottish sword slippers of these periods of Highland basket hilt development in mid 17th into 18th. It is well known that German blades mostly, and of 17th century, comprised the blades invariably mounted in these swords.

Could this been one of the entrepots for the ubiquitous ANDREA FERARA blades which appear so constantly on Highland basket hilts? We know that while the Andrea Ferara blades are forever aligned with the Scottish basket hilts, these had been coming to Great Britain much earlier in the century.
I have a 'mortuary' which is of Hounslow c. 1640 with Andrea Ferara blade. Also, here is one of the 'ribbon hilt' the forerunner of the 'traditional' form hilts in Glasgow, also with ANDREA FERARA blade. While these hilts are typically conservatively placed third quarter 17th c., more recent literature has suggested they were from earlier, perhaps 1640s, as would be supported by this comparison.

First three pics of Keiths Glasgow c. 1700 w/Shotley blade 1680s BTF
Next, the ribbon hilt mid 17th ANDREA FERARA blade..., Note the 'S' shape in hilt
Next, Mortuary, 1640 Hounslow, ANDREA FERARA blade, sorry for incomplete image, will rephoto.