Keris patrem ?

GIO · 13th April 2025, 04:45 PM

Many thanks Ian. I am not familiar at all with such - for me sophisticated - aspects.
Gio

GIO · 14th April 2025, 01:35 PM

Relatively low number of views, but 1868 is a good number.
Still no comments ?

Sajen · 14th April 2025, 06:49 PM

Hello Gio,

I can't answer your question but I have seen a few Balinese keris hilts of very similar size like the hilt from your keris.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 14th April 2025, 11:36 PM

I would be very reluctant to consider this tiny object in the form of a keris as something made specifically for a woman.

My reason for this is that I do not know of any situation in Balinese society where a Balinese woman would have occasion to wear or use such an object.

Maurice · 15th April 2025, 11:08 AM

And how about Javanese kerisses of this small length?
Are they more common in Java?

Kind refegards,
Maurice

David · 15th April 2025, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

And how about Javanese kerisses of this small length?
Are they more common in Java?

Kind refegards,
Maurice

I would say that patrem are not exactly "common" in Jawa, but they are more likely to exist there.

David · 15th April 2025, 04:20 PM

Gio, i would say that you would be more likely to get comments if you could provide some better and more detailed images of the keris. The PDFs you provided are too small to be able to give much feedback and the first images you provided are a bit blurry.
From what i can see i agree that this blade is rather recent. Though dressed in Balinese form it gives me the impression of something made elsewhere, perhaps Madura. I see a reasonably well formed blade here, but i am afraid i do not see a "very, very well made" one. I could be wrong, but the blade appears to have been made without a core similar to Buntel Mayat.
I tend to agree with Alan about the lack of Balinese situations where a patrem would be worn. I could be wrong, but i also don't thing there are too many patrems being commissioned these days for cultural uses even in Jawa where they are a know part of the culture, though uncommon even there. So since this is a modern creation i am not sure we should be calling it a patrem.
It is an attractive little item though.

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13th April 2025, 04:45 PM	#1
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 328	Many thanks Ian. I am not familiar at all with such - for me sophisticated - aspects. Gio

14th April 2025, 01:35 PM	#2
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 328	Relatively low number of views, but 1868 is a good number. Still no comments ?

14th April 2025, 06:49 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hello Gio, I can't answer your question but I have seen a few Balinese keris hilts of very similar size like the hilt from your keris. Regards, Detlef

14th April 2025, 11:36 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I would be very reluctant to consider this tiny object in the form of a keris as something made specifically for a woman. My reason for this is that I do not know of any situation in Balinese society where a Balinese woman would have occasion to wear or use such an object.

15th April 2025, 11:08 AM	#5
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	And how about Javanese kerisses of this small length? Are they more common in Java? Kind refegards, Maurice

15th April 2025, 04:20 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Gio, i would say that you would be more likely to get comments if you could provide some better and more detailed images of the keris. The PDFs you provided are too small to be able to give much feedback and the first images you provided are a bit blurry. From what i can see i agree that this blade is rather recent. Though dressed in Balinese form it gives me the impression of something made elsewhere, perhaps Madura. I see a reasonably well formed blade here, but i am afraid i do not see a "very, very well made" one. I could be wrong, but the blade appears to have been made without a core similar to Buntel Mayat. I tend to agree with Alan about the lack of Balinese situations where a patrem would be worn. I could be wrong, but i also don't thing there are too many patrems being commissioned these days for cultural uses even in Jawa where they are a know part of the culture, though uncommon even there. So since this is a modern creation i am not sure we should be calling it a patrem. It is an attractive little item though.