German sword for coment

[serdar]

Originally Posted by Radboud

That you are happy with the sword is what matters. You have it in your hands while I’m only able to look at the photos posted.

They’re a fun sword and I could very much see them being used on the pike and shot battlefields of the 80 years war or the 30 years war that came later.

They realy are, usualy i wouldnt buy it, but its condition, balance and how it feels in hand sold it.
It allso looks very nice.

[Jim McDougall]

Just some notes on the subject matter discussed from what I have seen in research over the years.
The use of the 'T' with 'O' above and topped with crown was a Toledo town or export mark indeed used in Toledo in 16th into early 17th c. However as far as I have seen is not placed asymmetrically on the forte of blades, but centrally as with makers punzones.

By the early 17th c. Solingen was spuriously using Spanish names and markings, as well as Munich. The only marking or device specifically attributed to Passau as far as sword blades was the stylized chop mark 'running wolf'. In the plate of 'running wolf' markings in Wagner and Bezdek the example accompanied by the 'Toledo' mark (#12) is likely a Solingen blade.
According to Wagner (1967) the running wolf was placed on blades being sent by Solingen to Passau. Passau was a center where various armorers supplied the mercenary groups who often assembled there pending advance into campaigns.

The Toledo mark (crowned TO) it seems would typically be accompanied by makers punzone, which seems in accord with this example. Solingen often used spurious Spanish marks incongruently which of course is not surprising,

While German makers used Spanish marks spuriously, a number of German makers from Solingen worked in Toledo, further complicating matters.

The stamping and marking of blades was not always consistent, nor regulated. The skills, equipment (stamps and tools) and often literacy (including language) often mitigated the style and application of markings could of course vary, while certain conventions were typically followed.
The familiar ME FECIT did normally have Solingen added, in the manner in Toledo the term EN TOLEDO was often used. However, in cases the words ME FECIT used in apparently representative application without literal consideration has often been seen (as in Royal Armories example, pre 1916 acquisition...thank you Radboud for these excellent examples!!).

The use of crosses bracketing words, names, phrases goes back to the ecclesiastic associations of the Frankish 'Ulfberth' blades of N.Europe 9th to 11th c. where that 'name' or 'term' became a hallmark of blade quality .
The crosses placed bracketing this word as I have understood has reprentation of the Bishop as the church often controlled blade making in those times. Sword blades were therefore blessed much in the manner that later markings (such as Passau wolf) were talismanic devices.

The use of crosses in multiples in configuration are more in the convention of the Jerusalem cross, again to ecclestiastical parlance.

The 'anchor' which was in the form of the chi rho and globe and cross was a device popular in Spain, but again adopted by Solingen in their affectation from Spanish blades. These were often embellished and altered with numerous cross bars and perhaps symbolic dots etc.

As far as this sword type it is basically an arming sword of the 'Sinclair' (so called) form common in N. Europe from mid/late 16th c. well into 17th.
The distinctive features are alternating quillons and often globular pommel, while the hilt elements and guards can vary , but shell guard and more complex baskets can occur. It does seem by the number of examples, that the 'shell' type guard was well known, and these can occur with various blades, though it seems usually shorter. These shell guard type with shorter stout blades often found use at sea in the mid to later 17th c. to the point that apocryphally, pirates called their cutlasses colliquially 'shells'.

Well, I wanted to keep this brief

Tolstoy, over and out,

[serdar]

Tolstoy, over and out,[/QUOTE]

Jim thank you very much on the info you shared! ����

[Lee]

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[serdar]

My bad, fixed. 🙃

[AHorsa]

Nice sword. Interestingly the Dutch collectors I know say they are dutch (maybe because of Pulpe´s book?), other think they are German
Whatever, your sword is authentic and belongs together in all parts. No worries about the blade.

What are the dimensions?

KR
Andreas

[Jim McDougall]

Serdar, glad to add notes, and appreciate the opportunity to see these examples.

It does seem there are typically very few distinctions in many cases between Dutch and German sword types, and often there were German makers in the Netherlands. Solingen blades typically were exported via Dutch ports, most notably Rotterdam which is why in England they were referred to as 'Dutch'.
Often the Dutch eponym was used there in the notion of 'Duetsch' (=German) was heard as 'Dutch', but the fact that these blades came from Rotterdam in most cases most likely.

The example shown in "Blanke Wapens" (J.P.Puype, 1981, #59, p.54) shows this type of hilt in an 18th c. configuration (1735) reflecting the remarkably long presence of this design in this case in distinctly Dutch context.

I have always found these shell guard type hangers fascinating for their profound use at sea, and associations of course with pirates.

As Andreas notes, it would be good to know blade length. Often these swords with these type hilts are referred to as cavalry swords, suggesting longer blades.