German sword for coment

[Merenti]

Hey Serdar, What you're showing here is a beautiful sword, and you're right. It's described in literature as a German sword. It usually has a mix of different brands (Toledo/Solingen). The blade usually has the words "Me fecit solingen." It can be dated to around 1620-1660. It was probably carried by rondarts.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by Merenti

Hey Serdar, What you're showing here is a beautiful sword, and you're right. It's described in literature as a German sword. It usually has a mix of different brands (Toledo/Solingen). The blade usually has the words "Me fecit solingen." It can be dated to around 1620-1660. It was probably carried by rondarts.

Thank you on an info Merenti, i saw those kind of blades, me fecit solingen, what do you think are the crosses makers mark allso, or it has to do with religious content?

[Radboud]

Hi Serder, thanks for showing this sword. Is it from your collection?

They're a great sword and appear to have a long service history. Often associated with naval use, this is likely incorrect though as they are quite a common type with lots of examples out there. They are also surprisingly uniform given the time they're from.

The Royal Armouries online catalogue lists at least three examples:

IX.172

IX.182

IX.184

I think this one is a composite

Plus there are several in the Dutch National Military Museum.

Forum member Cathy Brimage started a good topic on these with comments by Dutch military historian and author J.P. Puype, who theorised that these were cavalry swords.

Certainly in the catalogue "Van Maurits naar Munster - tactiek en triomf van het Staatse leger" by J.P. Puype & A.A. Wiekart they show one on p.g. 102 described as Broadsword for Cavalry circa 1585 - 1600 with the note that the had a long service life.

Personally, they seem short for cavalry use, but I suspect that there is a Dutch connection as the fledgling nation came out of the 80 years of war with the Spanish.

On your sword the Crown over OT mark seems to be fairly prevalent on the examples I've seen, and it is present on the example I have. I know it's popular to associate every T under a crown stamp as being from Toledo, but I doubt that is the case here. Why stamp the blade "Made in Solingen" if it was made in Toledo when the popular trend was to forge blades as having been made in Toledo?

[Radboud]

Taking another look at the sword you posted, Serdar, I have some concerns about the authenticity of the blade. The Ricasso is too simple compared to the other examples I've seen, the execution of the central fuller looks wrong, and the Crown over OT is offset to one side when all the examples I've seen place the stamps in the middle just above the tang.

Also, why does it say "ME FECIT" on both sides of the blade? That's saying "Made in" and Made in". It's meaning less.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by Radboud

Taking another look at the sword you posted, Serdar, I have some concerns about the authenticity of the blade. The Ricasso is too simple compared to the other examples I've seen, the execution of the central fuller looks wrong, and the Crown over OT is offset to one side when all the examples I've seen place the stamps in the middle just above the tang.

Also, why does it say "ME FECIT" on both sides of the blade? That's saying "Made in" and Made in". It's meaning less.

Authenticity in terms that it is old, or markings?

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by serdar

Authenticity in terms that it is old, or markings?

My personal opinion? Based on the photos you’ve posted, I believe the blade is a more recent replacement. It looks old so it could be from the Victorian times but there’s something off about it.

I’d recommend looking at as many other examples as you can find online.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by Radboud

My personal opinion? Based on the photos you’ve posted, I believe the blade is a more recent replacement. It looks old so it could be from the Victorian times but there’s something off about it.

I’d recommend looking at as many other examples as you can find online.

Im 100% sure it is authentic,
I posted you picture with identicaly put markings and fuller, same as on my example.

It is 100% untapmered and original, definetly not victorian copy, live blade of highest quality.
Why it has two times stamped me fecit, maybe they made mistake, i seen it before, i have dagger that has similar mistake 100% original.

They were produced by hand and humans do make mistakes.
About fuller if you mean becous it doesent go all the way, it dont need to, iw seen it before.

As i said i dont know about type of the sword, but i do know about originality, dont wory it is 100% original.

[Radboud]

That you are happy with the sword is what matters. You have it in your hands while I’m only able to look at the photos posted.

They’re a fun sword and I could very much see them being used on the pike and shot battlefields of the 80 years war or the 30 years war that came later.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by Radboud

Taking another look at the sword you posted, Serdar, I have some concerns about the authenticity of the blade. The Ricasso is too simple compared to the other examples I've seen, the execution of the central fuller looks wrong, and the Crown over OT is offset to one side when all the examples I've seen place the stamps in the middle just above the tang.

Also, why does it say "ME FECIT" on both sides of the blade? That's saying "Made in" and Made in". It's meaning less.

On both sides is writen ME FECIT, yes without solingen,
Or any makers name.

How do you mean fuller looks wrong?

Im 100% sure it is authentic as it is old and not tampered with, blade, handle, everything, but about markings i realy dont know, i wouldn buy it if i wasnt sure it is untempered and put together or what ever.

Im now looking for one schiavonesca, and my friend said something similar as you, ricasso is wrong, blade etc. But they were produced by hand, they werent produced in a factory, why wouldnt there be a diferent fuller, diferent placement of markings, not writen name, ricasso etc.?

[serdar]

Originally Posted by Radboud

Taking another look at the sword you posted, Serdar, I have some concerns about the authenticity of the blade. The Ricasso is too simple compared to the other examples I've seen, the execution of the central fuller looks wrong, and the Crown over OT is offset to one side when all the examples I've seen place the stamps in the middle just above the tang.

Also, why does it say "ME FECIT" on both sides of the blade? That's saying "Made in" and Made in". It's meaning less.

This example has a ot crown put in a same place as my does, and similar fuler.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by Radboud

Hi Serder, thanks for showing this sword. Is it from your collection?

They're a great sword and appear to have a long service history. Often associated with naval use, this is likely incorrect though as they are quite a common type with lots of examples out there. They are also surprisingly uniform given the time they're from.

The Royal Armouries online catalogue lists at least three examples:

IX.172

IX.182

IX.184

I think this one is a composite

Plus there are several in the Dutch National Military Museum.

Forum member Cathy Brimage started a good topic on these with comments by Dutch military historian and author J.P. Puype, who theorised that these were cavalry swords.

Certainly in the catalogue "Van Maurits naar Munster - tactiek en triomf van het Staatse leger" by J.P. Puype & A.A. Wiekart they show one on p.g. 102 described as Broadsword for Cavalry circa 1585 - 1600 with the note that the had a long service life.

Personally, they seem short for cavalry use, but I suspect that there is a Dutch connection as the fledgling nation came out of the 80 years of war with the Spanish.

On your sword the Crown over OT mark seems to be fairly prevalent on the examples I've seen, and it is present on the example I have. I know it's popular to associate every T under a crown stamp as being from Toledo, but I doubt that is the case here. Why stamp the blade "Made in Solingen" if it was made in Toledo when the popular trend was to forge blades as having been made in Toledo?

Nice Radboud, thank you on a post, yes it is in my colection.
Guy i bought it from, has an amazing colection from period 14-17 century.

He said it was german, and that it was used in town? Like the town knights used them, i realy dont know, first time that i meet with that kind of a sword.
But i do remember he mentioned something about cavalry, but as you said it seems little short for horse use?

About mark, on several places i found identical mark and they place it as passau mark, but as i said, on this one, i realy dont know.

It would definetly be silly to put made in solingen on a toledo blade.

Yours is very nice example!