Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 17th September 2024, 04:40 AM   #1
Cathey
Member
 
Cathey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: adelaide south australia
Posts: 284
Default Choice of decorative theme

Thanks Jim

I thought I might review each component of the sword by way of trying to ascertain its manufacture and have come up with the following:
  • The blade is hexagonal which is often seen in Dutch, British, French and German small swords;
  • Regarding the shell guards which I originally thought had the usual Greek Mythological themes, One shell guard features a seated man under what might be a tree laden with fruit (perhaps representing Adam) flanked by two creatures and with two doves above his head looking in both directions and eyes apparent;
  • The other Shell guards features a women seated under the same tree full of fruit, reaching to take one (Perhaps representing eve taking the apple) flanked again by two creatures and with two doves above but this time with there heads bowed down and hidden. If these are representations of Adam and Eve it would be in keeping with the religious theme;
  • The Ricasso features a seated man flaked by two Monster or Eagle heads and the quillon terminates in a swan curled around the end;
  • The figure in the centre of the guard appears to be wearing an odd skirt, from the rear it is clear he has a cross belt across his back and A band around his head featuring a large feather. No idea what he is holding;
  • The pommels feature an arrangement of figures including pan playing flute, swans, a seated man, seated women, standing figure robbed etc, hanging fruit and other foliage.

Not sure if any of this helps of course.
Attached Images
      
Cathey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2024, 06:05 AM   #2
Radboud
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 276
Default

I love the detail there Cathy. Although I'm not sure I see a christian theme there. Some of my observations:
1. Both figures are seated surrounded what look like acanthus leaf, which were picked up in 18th-century neo-classical art. Acanthus has multiple meanings, enduring life, immortality or in some christian tradition pain, sin and punishment.
2. The animals on either side of the figures have curled rams horns.
3. Next to the man they face him with his bodies, but turn their heads away, while next to the woman they have their backs turned but heads towards her.
4. The animals next to the man appear to have wings and monkey tails while the other pair do not.

Unfortuantly I don't know what they mean either, but I'm sure there is a significance to them and they would have told a story to the original owner.
Radboud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2024, 07:03 PM   #3
Interested Party
Member
 
Interested Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 494
Default

An alternate cast of characters would be Pluto and Persephony. With the figure in the knuckle bow being a Caryatid. I guess the question is do you see the fruits as apples or pomegranates??

Thanks for the detailed photos!
Interested Party is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th September 2024, 10:48 PM   #4
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,194
Default

Cathey, thank you for the further details, and all additional observations and perspectives always help. These kinds of allegorical themes are typically an entire conundrum, as we cannot know which contexts they may be aligned with. A Christian connotation may not specifically denote Catholic, as noted in that various other denominations of Christianity also follow the teachings of St.Augustine; Greek Orthodox; Lutheran.

It is important to note that there were tensions and strife even within certain religious factions,for example even in later times within the Lutheran church between 'synods' or branches. I am not sure that certain phraseology or mottos in Latin align particularly with a certain nationality, though of course sometimes the character of the wording might differ slightly it seems. Whatever the case, the Latin orientation in the Catholic manner of well known mottos or invocations would transcend nationality as far as use on blades.

It seems also that the blades themselves were of course typically German, that is most often Solingen, so were mounted in the swords of most European nations including the Netherlands, France and England. What is notable is this hexagonal blade form seems unusual for smallswords, which typically had hollow ground triple face blades. Blades of this section it seems were usually on heavier blades, but obviously that may not entirely be the case.

So basically it is down to trying to determine if the character of the intricate neoclassical and allegorical theme might have some specific alignment either nationally or with a certain group or following. Neoclassicism was of course an artistic movement that again transcended nationality in Europe in the 18th century and used allegoric with both Greek and Roman origin.

Possibly there might be clues in Bashford Dean (1928)?
The small sword genre is literally wrought with these kinds of conundrums as the basic form was so collectively used, and only decoration and nuanced elements of the hilt typically offer possible categorization.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2024, 02:54 AM   #5
Cathey
Member
 
Cathey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: adelaide south australia
Posts: 284
Default Pluto and Persephony

Hi Interested Party, yes could be Pluto and Persephony, they might be pomegranates not apples. This would fit with Pan making a brief appearance on the pommel perhaps. Cheers Cathey
Cathey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2024, 03:46 PM   #6
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,194
Default

You guys are much better at all the classic iconography and mythology than I am (by far!) but it seems the neoclassic theme in the hilt artistry is pretty universal throughout Europe in this period. The style of the hilt, as transcendent as small sword hilts are, at best guess in end of first quarter 18th c.+.

For me what is most notable is the blade and grip style. The fluted (reeded) ivory is as previously noted something seen on 17th c. Iberian rapiers, mostly Spanish it seems. It was by no means prevalent, but something that was indeed seen on occasion, and by that token, likely prestigious. With the potential for the ivory to be perhaps mammoth from Siberian regions, and the diplomatic relations between the Russian and Bourbon courts, this seems a likely possibility.

With the blade, this seems again, a Spanish preference (dos mesas, as I think Fernando told me once was the term). These hexagonal sections prevailed on heavier dragoon blades about mid 18th c.+ in Spain (I think of the noted 'Spanish motto' blades).

The motto tends to the following of St. Augustine and while Christian, does not denote Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant in particular as far as I can see.
In the Spanish Netherlands, which may be the origin of this sword, such a motto would not define any specific Faith IMO, thus would not be defined despite the well noted strife between Catholic and Protestant there.

I searched through Bashford Dean (1929) and did not find any comparable themes nor any example with reeded ivory grip. As this comprehensive source covers examples from all European countries including Russia, it can be seen this sword is a unique anomaly, and certainly privately commissioned for a person of high status.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2024, 11:19 PM   #7
Radboud
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 276
Default

Personally I think the reeded ivory grip lends towards English origin. There is an abundance of late 18th Century English spadroons (of the type loosely grouped as the 1786 pattern but they certainly predate this.) that have near identical grips.

Such as this one from my collection:
Attached Images
 
Radboud is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.