Would you call this a small Machete ... or not ?

[fernando]

Thanks much, Gentlemen. So ... definitely not a standard pattern thing. And not a kitchen knife, either . Dare i say its blade has a Bowie touch... in a custom made fashion ...

[Interested Party]

Agricultural tool?

[fernando]

I don't think so. The front section has a (weapon) knife shape; whether a workshop exercise or the real thing.

[Jim McDougall]

IMO, most definitely a 'machete' and as these were locally made usually by blacksmiths, there is no 'standard' simply a pragmatic following of general functional form for an agricultural tool.
The term 'machete' has a pretty tortured etymology stemming loosely from Latin terms for hammer or club, which became 'mazo' (=club, Sp.) then more dramatic 'macho' (=sledge hammer).
The term 'machete' is Spanish diminutive to that term, which became assoc. with these heavy chopping tools.

As they were open hilted and resembling short swords, they often found use aboard Spanish ships (examples found on Atocha wreck, 1622; and Maravillas wreck 1649) as weapons but more ashore for clearing through vegetation. The use of 'machetes' as weapons is well known to the present day, and tools as weapons to weapons as tools, is a pretty standard exchange. I would note that many of the 'machetes' (later becoming 'cutlasses' by term) came from these used by Basque peasantry in fields and ended up on vessels out of the well known port of Bilbao ("Small Arms of the Spanish Treasure Fleets", Noel Wells, 2006).

It is always hard to identify privately made knives and tools as they are typically unmarked, only nominally follow established forms, and as they remained in use for generations, were traded or sold off without provenance its anybodys guess. The blade tip does have a Bowie gestalt so could very well be Spanish colonial and probably 19th c. possibly early. As well observed by Mark, the blade tip does have a remarkable resemblance to the short and heavy Chinese da dao. Chinese influences were of course well known in that far western part of the 'Spanish Main', in the Philippines.

[fernando]

Thank you for your input, Jim. My asking if this thing is a machete was more to define whether its form fitted in the tradionally machete known way and not the ethimology of the term; which, not wishing (or afford) to be academic, its origin is not so solid. Look how the various Spanish sources deal with the term in its acceptations.
The origin of the term machete is unknown, but it is mostly believed that it is a diminutive of macho. Another possibility is that it comes from the term machaera and this one in turn from the Greek μάχαιρα, which the Romans used to describe the Iberian falcata with similar characteristics.
This word is etymologically composed of the Latin «marcŭlus» small martillo or male and the suffix «ete» which indicates diminutive with affective expressions and at the same time as derogatory.
Although its name is Spanish, possibly derived from 'macho', its ancestors are located at the dawn of history. The investigators are inclined to label the falchion as its most dangerous parent, whose appearance is located in Europe in the XI century.
And last but not least, although for the fun of it, the machete term in Spanish school lexicon, is a 'cheat sheet' implement .

[Jim McDougall]

[QUOTE=fernando;282829]Thank you for your input, Jim. My asking if this thing is a machete was more to define whether its form fitted in the tradionally machete known way and not the ethimology of the term; which, not wishing (or afford) to be academic, its origin is not so solid. Look how the various Spanish sources deal with the term in its acceptances.
The origin of the term machete is unknown, but it is mostly believed that it is a diminutive of macho. Another possibility is that it comes from the term machaera and this one in turn from the Greek μάχαιρα, which the Romans used to describe the Iberian falcata with similar characteristics.
This word is etymologically composed of the Latin «marcŭlus» small martillo or male and the suffix «ete» which indicates diminutive with affective expressions and at the same time as derogatory.
Although its name is Spanish, possibly derived from 'macho', its ancestors are located at the dawn of history. The investigators are inclined to label the falchion as its most dangerous parent, whose appearance is located in Europe in the XI century.
And last but not least, although for the fun of it, the machete term in Spanish school lexicon, is a 'cheat sheet' implement .[/QUOTE

The point I was making is that the term machete, and as I described its tortured etymology are of little help in the endless struggle to classify weapon examples in certain pigeon holes. The Spanish colonial espada ancha for example, was never colloquially called that, it was referred to as a MACHETE. The term never arise until a misunderstanding by arms writers in the 1970s. In shipboard records and inventories of 17th centuries, short heavy bladed swords (with open hilts) were sometimes called machetes, sometimes cutlasses.
It pretty much depended on who was using it, when, where and what for. If it was chopping wood or brush it was a machete, when used as a weapon, a sword or whatever.

[Gavin Nugent]

Looks a lot like a "No Spin" vintage throwing knife to me, but at 18 inches, one would have to ask why? Many vintage throwing knives share this handle profile though.

If a Machete, it looks simple, robust and practical enough, but why 6" long grip when 4" would suffice and offer better reach and fulcrum point... the grip does not look practical for a machete application.

The length falls around a Smatchet length, being used for chopping and thrusting, which the blade shape provides, but typically these also have a short handle and a Bolo type blade.

The handle profile also reminds me a lot of the old French made "Navaja", made for local and export markets, many contracted by Spanish guilds.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

... Looks a lot like a "No Spin" vintage throwing knife to me, but at 18 inches, one would have to ask why? Many vintage throwing knives share this handle profile though....

Thank you Gavin. Throwing knives can be rather long, specially those 'no spin' ones used in circus.
Still i doubt this is the case, as its point is not symmetrical, wile (human) target throwing blades must be.
See the one i once owned, that was considered a circus example. Its length is 35 cms., but it goes longer, when having its wooden grip.
On the other hand, the 'bowie' type tip in the discussed example must point to something.

.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... In shipboard records and inventories of 17th centuries, short heavy bladed swords (with open hilts) were sometimes called machetes, sometimes cutlasses.It pretty much depended on who was using it , when, where and what for. If it was chopping wood or bush it was a machete, when used as a weapon, a sword or whatever.

Indeed Jim. You take the Portuguese example, in that we call the 'generic' machete a 'CATANA'. Reason why ?

The term Catana was incorporated into the Portuguese language in the 16th century, after the arrival of the Portuguese in Japan. For this reason, in these almost five hundred years, this word has lost its Japanese pronunciation, becoming Portuguese and gaining new meanings in Portuguese, especially in the European, African and Asian variants, designating a variety of objects such as swords, sabers or machetes.

I have phoned this morning my favorite ironmonger, whom i know sells these things as tools. He didn't even know that his Catanas are (also) called machetes !