Central Javanese keris for comment

[A. G. Maisey]

No Kai, definitely not Madurese.

In my earlier post I suggested Central Jawa, probably somewhere around Klaten , I've looked at the top pic of the gonjo, this gonjo complies with Mataram form, and that supports my earlier suggestion.

I do not want to revise my initial ideas, it is a very nice keris, not top drawer, but very few keris are.

There is one indicator that places the complete keris into a lower level of quality:- the grain in the quite nicely sculpted wrongko has been incorrectly orientated, it should flow downwards towards the front of the wrongko. This deficiency tells us that it has been made by a lowly ranked tukang wrongko, somebody who really did not know the correct conventions. Or perhaps the material used for the wrongko was unable to support correct orientation, but it was used anyway, & this tells us that the original value of the blade was insufficient to encourage the time & cost of obtaining a better piece of material.

[kai]

Thanks, Alan!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In my earlier post I suggested Central Jawa, probably somewhere around Klaten , I've looked at the top pic of the gonjo, this gonjo complies with Mataram form, and that supports my earlier suggestion.

I do not want to revise my initial ideas, it is a very nice keris, not top drawer, but very few keris are.

There is one indicator that places the complete keris into a lower level of quality:- the grain in the quite nicely sculpted wrongko has been incorrectly orientated, it should flow downwards towards the front of the wrongko. This deficiency tells us that it has been made by a lowly ranked tukang wrongko, somebody who really did not know the correct conventions. Or perhaps the material used for the wrongko was unable to support correct orientation, but it was used anyway, & this tells us that the original value of the blade was insufficient to encourage the time & cost of obtaining a better piece of material.

Thank you Alan for further comments!
May I ask you why the orientation of the wood grain has to look to the other side? Is it possible to give the blade a dhapur? Pamor?
I've cleaned the blade, and at the moment it's drying from WD40. I will post pictures soon.
Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

The grain orientation is convention:- ideally the grain should slant down to the front of the atasan, but sometimes the material itself prevents this.

If we use the philosophical interpretation of "why?", it is because a forward slant indicates progression & a positive feeling, a slant towards the back generates a negative feeling.

If we use the Surakarta pakem, dhapur is Jalak Ngore.

I'd prefer to leave pamor comment out of it, there are too many ways to go.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The grain orientation is convention:- ideally the grain should slant down to the front of the atasan, but sometimes the material itself prevents this.

If we use the philosophical interpretation of "why?", it is because a forward slant indicates progression & a positive feeling, a slant towards the back generates a negative feeling.

If we use the Surakarta pakem, dhapur is Jalak Ngore.

I'd prefer to leave pamor comment out of it, there are too many ways to go.

Alan,

I am asking what you want to keep out of.

I find pamor and the esoteric "value" of keris some of the most fascinating things, and as noted, and my Java Keris knowledge is little more than superficial.

What fascinates me about Detlef's blade is the area central to the base of the blade that covers the pesi and the ring of pamor surrounding it, along with the wave of pattern almost gripping it, it really is remarkable.

Can anything be learnt or understand by this aspect, for the layman like me out here... I am always interested to know more, that is the Beggar's Bowl for which the mind is, always wanting to be filled with more...

With thanks

Gav

[A. G. Maisey]

I do not want to give an opinion on the pamor classification because the photos at the moment are not good enough, complete enough nor clear enough. If Detlef can produce a bit better pics when he has cleaned the blade up a bit I might float an opinion, I might not.

At the moment the pamor looks to me like a coarse wos wutah that has been cleared from the relieved areas of the blade, together with a number of swirls (puser) that have been inlet into holes drilled in the blade, the puser pamor patches running down the blade might be able to named as a Banyu Tetes variation.

It is nothing special, pretty simple and not hard to produce, but I think it might be pretty effective. I need better pics.

A lot of the esoteric stuff is either manufactured or misunderstood, I prefer to limit comment & discussion on that aspect to face to face discussion with people who have an adequate background.

Gavin, to "learn" the keris you need to study & preferably experience the society & culture, nobody can learn much by just trying to study the keris in isolation.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

A lot of the esoteric stuff is either manufactured or misunderstood, I prefer to limit comment & discussion on that aspect to face to face discussion with people who have an adequate background.

Gavin, to "learn" the keris you need to study & preferably experience the society & culture, nobody can learn much by just trying to study the keris in isolation.

Thank you Alan, I appreciate your thoughts.

[Sajen]

Here are some pics from the handle. In my opinion not bad but not the best carving quality I've seen so far. And the fit from the blade inside the scabbard.