Indonesian sword ID request

JeffS · 26th March 2023, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

I am intrigued, if you have so many questions and possibly some doubts, why did you buy it? It wasn't particularly cheap, I guess, knowing the shop it came from and including shipping to Singapore + possible custom charges this ends up being a pretty penny.

Of course it is your money and who am I to question any purchase.

No worries, happy to share my thinkimg. I thought the price was quite reasonable for a dealer (€250) and I have been getting more interested in colonial influenced SE Asian sword styles which, up to a recently acquired parang beladah, I've avoided. Admittedly a little impulsive, but I enjoy collecting pieces that I know little about as it provides a learning opportunity. At this stage of collecting I tend to focus on variety versus specialization. I don't doubt it is an authentic Indonesian sword, just unsure of origin. True it is painful shipping stuff to Singapore, however I have come to accept as another extra cost to living here.

milandro · 26th March 2023, 03:37 PM

nice to hear that you also share buying something an a learning opportunity.

I too do that, and my collector's prowess isn't such that I can call myself an expert specialist when I am rather more a generalist.

I think it was unavoidable that many layers of colonial experiences ( some within Asia itself) left many superimpositions of culture and weapons were no different than anything else.

As for the name, that has to be taken with a large pinch of salt and Portugis may have simple meant " foreign" within this context. I just saw a video of a guy (who has hundreds of videos, and at some point he grabs a Dutch Klewang (could have been a 1811 Hembrug) and calls it a " Portuguese weapon"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdvsVqh2aws

So maybe this is as Portuguis a weapon as Turkeys are from Turkey... not.

Nevertheless the way is the goal!

kai · 26th March 2023, 06:05 PM

Quote:

As for the name, that has to be taken with a large pinch of salt and Portugis may have simple meant " foreign" within this context.

This would be my guess, too, since the Portuguese were the first Europeans to arrive in the archipelago.

Regards,
Kai

Ian · 27th March 2023, 01:40 AM

Hi Jeff,

I think that's a good looking sword and similar in blade style to some of the locally made precursors of the "Dutch klewang." Hard to say when it was made, but I would guess at late 19th C. You would have a better idea being able to inspect it directly.

Colonially influenced local swords are an interesting topic, and SE Asia is a fertile area to find examples.

JeffS · 27th March 2023, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Jeff,

I think that's a good looking sword and similar in blade style to some of the locally made precursors of the "Dutch klewang." Hard to say when it was made, but I would guess at late 19th C. You would have a better idea being able to inspect it directly.

Colonially influenced local swords are an interesting topic, and SE Asia is a fertile area to find examples.

Thank you. Any thoughts on where it is from?

Sajen · 27th March 2023, 04:02 PM

Nice one Jeff!

I would guess a Javanese origin.

Regards,
Detlef

kai · 27th March 2023, 05:33 PM

I assume you're referring to the island of Java as a whole rather than to Tanah Jawa, Detlef?

Anyway, I'd certainly include Sunda and Madura as likely origins. And it could also originate from any other location with heavy European/Dutch influence, I believe.

Pretty nice brass work - looking forward to seeing any similar examples!

Regards,
Kai

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26th March 2023, 03:37 PM	#2
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 492	nice to hear that you also share buying something an a learning opportunity. I too do that, and my collector's prowess isn't such that I can call myself an expert specialist when I am rather more a generalist. I think it was unavoidable that many layers of colonial experiences ( some within Asia itself) left many superimpositions of culture and weapons were no different than anything else. As for the name, that has to be taken with a large pinch of salt and Portugis may have simple meant " foreign" within this context. I just saw a video of a guy (who has hundreds of videos, and at some point he grabs a Dutch Klewang (could have been a 1811 Hembrug) and calls it a " Portuguese weapon" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdvsVqh2aws So maybe this is as Portuguis a weapon as Turkeys are from Turkey... not. Nevertheless the way is the goal!

27th March 2023, 01:40 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,397	Hi Jeff, I think that's a good looking sword and similar in blade style to some of the locally made precursors of the "Dutch klewang." Hard to say when it was made, but I would guess at late 19th C. You would have a better idea being able to inspect it directly. Colonially influenced local swords are an interesting topic, and SE Asia is a fertile area to find examples.

27th March 2023, 04:02 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Nice one Jeff! I would guess a Javanese origin. Regards, Detlef

27th March 2023, 05:33 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	I assume you're referring to the island of Java as a whole rather than to Tanah Jawa, Detlef? Anyway, I'd certainly include Sunda and Madura as likely origins. And it could also originate from any other location with heavy European/Dutch influence, I believe. Pretty nice brass work - looking forward to seeing any similar examples! Regards, Kai