Looking for information on Andres Martinez of Toledo

[fernando]

No reason to worry, Michael. I reckon i was premature. This Latin inscription also appears in Toledan swords; maybe not so often, but it does. The smith marks in this blade are reprehensible. No doubt this is a genuine blade.
Whether the hilt is not from the period, hopefuly more knowledgeable members will pop in and give their impression.

[10thRoyal]

I'm very relieved to hear that FINALLY I have found something that is not entirely a Victorian reproduction. I was on the verge of giving up honestly. As for the inscription, I'm hoping it looks a little less janky after some time with a tooth brush but clearly a calligrapher Andres was not.

Something interesting I noticed from the armory catalogue I posted earlier, the mark on my sword seems to have been made with the same stamp as the example that was found in the armory. As in the exact same physical punch was used to make both markings. Not sure if that is actually interesting or not.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by 10thRoyal

I'm very relieved to hear that FINALLY I have found something that is not entirely a Victorian reproduction. I was on the verge of giving up honestly. As for the inscription, I'm hoping it looks a little less janky after some time with a tooth brush but clearly a calligrapher Andres was not.

Something interesting I noticed from the armory catalogue I posted earlier, the mark on my sword seems to have been made with the same stamp as the example that was found in the armory. As in the exact same physical punch was used to make both markings. Not sure if that is actually interesting or not.

As Fernando has noted, it was not unusual to have this 'Latin' esque type of inscription on actual Toledo blades. There were a number of Solingen makers who actually worked in Toledo at times, such Henry Koll (Enrique Coel).
He has shown important detail on this maker from the remarkable resources that he has access to, so that seems well established.

I would point out that this punzone with the T is correctly placed as per authentic Spanish swords of 17th c. and Victorian replicas never had makers detail on them as they were not produced with deception in mind.
That mark with the hump over the T is interesting as it is unique, and it seems to this family. The T with other embellishment seems more often copied on other blades known produced in Solingen, often with incongruent Spanish makers names and marks.
Therefore, as agreed, yours has all appearance of the real deal, at least as far as the blade.

It is possible that the hilt was a later addition, and while replicas did occasionally use 'real' vintage blades, this was a common occurrence on authentically used rapiers as well. These were often repaired or rehilted in accord with changes in fashion or preference of owner through working lives, and to find an example not 'composite' is quite remarkable.

[fernando]

Meanwhile i have sent e-mail to two surces in Spain, to see whether they can untangle this Martinez knot ... but i am not sure if they ever answer .

[10thRoyal]

Originally Posted by fernando

Meanwhile i have sent e-mail to two surces in Spain, to see whether they can untangle this Martinez knot ... but i am not sure if they ever answer .

Fernando I cannot thank you enough! I have struggled to find any other mentions Andres Martinez or examples of his work so your help is immensely appreciated.

[10thRoyal]

I finally the sword in hand and am amazed at the balance of it and just how massive the guard is compared to the blade. I've attached better photos of the inscription for anyone who comes across an Andres Martinez blade in the future along with the anchor mark on the blade that was not previously shown.

[10thRoyal]

Originally Posted by fernando

Meanwhile i have sent e-mail to two surces in Spain, to see whether they can untangle this Martinez knot ... but i am not sure if they ever answer .

Good afternoon Fernando, did you ever hear back from those sources in Spain?

[fernando]

Nothing useful, i am afraid. One of them said that my reasoning on the fathers/sons sounded plausible but he was sorry not to be able to provide any further information.The other one, whom i had more expectations from, has never answered my email.
Sorry .

[urbanspaceman]

A fine blade is a valuable commodity, it is a product of those esoteric practices not common throughout a lot of history.
Fashioning a hilt was rarely fraught with difficulty, and consequently could be discarded and replaced at the whim of fashion and circumstance - as Jim said. This speaks volumes about trends in history.
I have two extremely fine rapier blades that have been converted to court-swords with very fancy hilts; for me, they are nearly as precious as my 1590s swept hilt, although nowhere-near as valuable on the commercial market.
It is all too easy to be caught up in the pedantic attitudes of some collectors.
The Arms and Armour Society presented a lecture this month on 'collectors and collecting' that was both poignant, amusing and precautionary, in that: "de gustibus non est disbutandum".
You should see the faces of coin collectors when they discover I clean my antique coins!
Fine Samurai swords are revered, and their condition is sacrosanct; why should the West be any different?
For me, a luxurious sword should reflect as much as possible of the quality and craftsmanship displayed when new. Munition's-grade battlefield swords are a different issue altogether though and are usually more inspiring when showing the patina of age and activity.
OK, I'm off my soap-box now.
ps
All this aside, your monster hilt looks amazing, regardless of its provenance.