Indian Bichwa Dagger For Comment

Lew · 17th June 2006, 08:37 PM

Hi All

The dagger arrived the other day so here are some better pics. Bichwa strike me as a pure stabbing weapon.

Lew

ariel · 17th June 2006, 08:59 PM

I agree. Nasty, stabbing (backstabbing, too) street gang type weapon. An equivalent of Shiv.
Impossible to imagine a "knightly" person fighting with this thing.

Tim Simmons · 17th June 2006, 09:04 PM

When fighting being a knight or an oik makes no difference, a stab is a stab whoever sticks it in.

Flavio · 17th June 2006, 10:27 PM

A big fork for a big steak! Now you need a big knife

Very nice and very impressive!!!!

KuKulzA28 · 27th June 2009, 06:21 AM

Hello, I know this is resurrecting an old thread
..but I had a question and I didn't want to open up a whole new thread...

What is the significance of the double blade? Many bichwas have just one, but many also have two. Does a double blade give advantages like more stabs, ability to trap weapons, and being able to hit a given target easier? Would the single bladed kind just be simpler to use and manufacture? Was there training involved or was it mainly an assassination and thuggish weapon, not often in the hands of someone who had to face a wary and skilled opponent?

Thanks

Atlantia · 27th June 2009, 05:18 PM

Nice addition to the collection mate! I've never had one myself.
I always assumed that the handle shape and configuration of the blade would make it perfect for use with a Dahl on the same arm.
I believe that the benefit of twin bladed weapons, whether one above the other or side by side is that the wound is often more difficult to 'patch'.
I think the benefit of the strange handle on these is that it stays on the hand when open, in other words the hand using it isn't completely incapacitated by holding it, allowing for grabbing or other last resort close quarters actions, even possibly for holding the reins of a horse while having it in hand?

Jim McDougall · 29th June 2009, 05:17 AM

Hi Kukulz,
Thank you for bringing up this old thread! and an extremely interesting topic.
I think its great that you're reading through the older material, and asking very valid questions on these interesting daggers.

For the record, I would note that these are essentially a Maratha weapon that seem to have developed from daggers originally made from a single buffalo horn probably around the 17th c. While most examples noted in references seem to be primarily of Madhya Pradesh origin, they of course diffused widely, as the recurved blade following the horn shape evolved.
These did not always have the loop handle, and many had more traditional hilts , especially examples from Tanjore (Thanjavur) in Tamil Nadu.

It is well known that these were called 'bichwa' ( roughly translated as the scorpions sting), and were often concealed in sleeve in a sheath by common people in Mysore and Hyderabad (Egerton p.116, #490, Pant.p.155).

As for the double blade, there are examples of these noted as with 'forked blade' ("Indian Arms & Armour" G.N.Pant, New Delhi, 1980, p.153-155, fig. 406). Unfortunately there are no specifics on the purpose of the dual blades.
There is an ivory hilted example with dual blades which is a regular form hilt resembling somewhat a choora style and two bichwa blades, with the hilt split in the middle and held together by two hooks (plate CCXXXVII, Pant).
This piece is attributed to the East India Co. c.1800, and seems likely from Mysore, when that company took over in these regions.

This separating function would seem to be an effective use of dual bladed weapons such as the Chinese dual blade knives, and Marathas did often use dual weapons in fighting, even use of dual patas is known. However, a double bladed knife would obviously be effective only in slashing, as it does not seem likely suited for effective penetration in stabbing. The Marathas from what I understand favored slashing regardless, so perhaps mostly a more fearsome looking weapon?

The loop type handle would offer a more secure grip, and some of these are fashioned in trench knife (knuckleduster fashion) with bagh nakh (=tigers claw) on the loop. One cannot deny the psychological effect of these weapons, which were likely pretty effective as well. Gene offers some very plausible reasons for the loop as well.
In some 18th century Scottish basket hilts there is often an oval loop in the hilt configuration, which seems generally held to be placed there for holding reins (not suggesting any Highlanders were among Maratha's, just a note).

Best regards,
Jim

17th June 2006, 08:37 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi All The dagger arrived the other day so here are some better pics. Bichwa strike me as a pure stabbing weapon. Lew Attached Images

27th June 2009, 05:18 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Nice addition to the collection mate! I've never had one myself. I always assumed that the handle shape and configuration of the blade would make it perfect for use with a Dahl on the same arm. I believe that the benefit of twin bladed weapons, whether one above the other or side by side is that the wound is often more difficult to 'patch'. I think the benefit of the strange handle on these is that it stays on the hand when open, in other words the hand using it isn't completely incapacitated by holding it, allowing for grabbing or other last resort close quarters actions, even possibly for holding the reins of a horse while having it in hand? Last edited by Atlantia; 27th June 2009 at 05:29 PM.

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17th June 2006, 08:59 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I agree. Nasty, stabbing (backstabbing, too) street gang type weapon. An equivalent of Shiv. Impossible to imagine a "knightly" person fighting with this thing.

17th June 2006, 09:04 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	When fighting being a knight or an oik makes no difference, a stab is a stab whoever sticks it in.

17th June 2006, 10:27 PM	#4
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	A big fork for a big steak! Now you need a big knife Very nice and very impressive!!!!

27th June 2009, 06:21 AM	#5
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Hello, I know this is resurrecting an old thread ..but I had a question and I didn't want to open up a whole new thread... What is the significance of the double blade? Many bichwas have just one, but many also have two. Does a double blade give advantages like more stabs, ability to trap weapons, and being able to hit a given target easier? Would the single bladed kind just be simpler to use and manufacture? Was there training involved or was it mainly an assassination and thuggish weapon, not often in the hands of someone who had to face a wary and skilled opponent? Thanks

29th June 2009, 05:17 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,444	Hi Kukulz, Thank you for bringing up this old thread! and an extremely interesting topic. I think its great that you're reading through the older material, and asking very valid questions on these interesting daggers. For the record, I would note that these are essentially a Maratha weapon that seem to have developed from daggers originally made from a single buffalo horn probably around the 17th c. While most examples noted in references seem to be primarily of Madhya Pradesh origin, they of course diffused widely, as the recurved blade following the horn shape evolved. These did not always have the loop handle, and many had more traditional hilts , especially examples from Tanjore (Thanjavur) in Tamil Nadu. It is well known that these were called 'bichwa' ( roughly translated as the scorpions sting), and were often concealed in sleeve in a sheath by common people in Mysore and Hyderabad (Egerton p.116, #490, Pant.p.155). As for the double blade, there are examples of these noted as with 'forked blade' ("Indian Arms & Armour" G.N.Pant, New Delhi, 1980, p.153-155, fig. 406). Unfortunately there are no specifics on the purpose of the dual blades. There is an ivory hilted example with dual blades which is a regular form hilt resembling somewhat a choora style and two bichwa blades, with the hilt split in the middle and held together by two hooks (plate CCXXXVII, Pant). This piece is attributed to the East India Co. c.1800, and seems likely from Mysore, when that company took over in these regions. This separating function would seem to be an effective use of dual bladed weapons such as the Chinese dual blade knives, and Marathas did often use dual weapons in fighting, even use of dual patas is known. However, a double bladed knife would obviously be effective only in slashing, as it does not seem likely suited for effective penetration in stabbing. The Marathas from what I understand favored slashing regardless, so perhaps mostly a more fearsome looking weapon? The loop type handle would offer a more secure grip, and some of these are fashioned in trench knife (knuckleduster fashion) with bagh nakh (=tigers claw) on the loop. One cannot deny the psychological effect of these weapons, which were likely pretty effective as well. Gene offers some very plausible reasons for the loop as well. In some 18th century Scottish basket hilts there is often an oval loop in the hilt configuration, which seems generally held to be placed there for holding reins (not suggesting any Highlanders were among Maratha's, just a note). Best regards, Jim