Balinese keris advice

A. G. Maisey · 26th October 2022, 09:39 PM

I think I can understand what you're saying here David, and if I do, I can also understand why my comment might seem to be confusing.

Yes, it is certain that in Old Bali there was sometimes conflict between the various kingdoms, a colony was established on Lombok, other colonies were attempted in other locations. However, in Standard English, and also in the way I think --- and this could be the problem --- simple conflict does not a warrior make.

The way I understand the word "warrior" is that a man who is a warrior is one who makes warfare his occupation, thus a warrior society is a society that depends for its existence upon its ability to wage war. If I think "warrior" in an historic context I think of people such as Ghengis Khan, or other historic people whose profession was war, not just occasional conflict, especially conflict that ultimately might be settled by negotiation rather than spilt blood.

Balinese society was a society of farmers who occasionally became involved in conflict, within Balinese society the K'satriya caste can be thought of as the ruling class of people, Brahmana could not rule, traders and craftsmen could not rule, the tillers of the soil could not rule, only the K'satriya could rule, so the job of this entire class of people was to ensure order & and stability within the realm, and to support the ruler, whose presence was in fact, The Realm. Not at all dissimilar to the old English hierarchy of nobility.

Yes, the K'satriya was also the line of first defence, or first offence, in times of conflict, but their profession was not war, thus they were not warriors, they were the ruling class.

In Standard English, the word "warrior" is now principally used in a poetic or rhetorical way, and it can also be used in a manner that bestows praise, for instance, in a eulogistic sense.

Balinese society was not a warrior society, and I was commenting in terms of the society.

There is another book that is well worth the time (& effort) to read:-

Negara:- The theatre state in 19th. century Bali -- Clifford Geertz,
ISBN 0 691 05316 2 Princeton University Press

I used the word "effort", because I do not find this work as easy to digest as Wiener, it can be an effort to get through, but it does clarify the way in which Balinese realm & society functioned before the puputans, before the tourists, and before the erosion of traditional ways.

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26th October 2022, 09:39 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	I think I can understand what you're saying here David, and if I do, I can also understand why my comment might seem to be confusing. Yes, it is certain that in Old Bali there was sometimes conflict between the various kingdoms, a colony was established on Lombok, other colonies were attempted in other locations. However, in Standard English, and also in the way I think --- and this could be the problem --- simple conflict does not a warrior make. The way I understand the word "warrior" is that a man who is a warrior is one who makes warfare his occupation, thus a warrior society is a society that depends for its existence upon its ability to wage war. If I think "warrior" in an historic context I think of people such as Ghengis Khan, or other historic people whose profession was war, not just occasional conflict, especially conflict that ultimately might be settled by negotiation rather than spilt blood. Balinese society was a society of farmers who occasionally became involved in conflict, within Balinese society the K'satriya caste can be thought of as the ruling class of people, Brahmana could not rule, traders and craftsmen could not rule, the tillers of the soil could not rule, only the K'satriya could rule, so the job of this entire class of people was to ensure order & and stability within the realm, and to support the ruler, whose presence was in fact, The Realm. Not at all dissimilar to the old English hierarchy of nobility. Yes, the K'satriya was also the line of first defence, or first offence, in times of conflict, but their profession was not war, thus they were not warriors, they were the ruling class. In Standard English, the word "warrior" is now principally used in a poetic or rhetorical way, and it can also be used in a manner that bestows praise, for instance, in a eulogistic sense. Balinese society was not a warrior society, and I was commenting in terms of the society. There is another book that is well worth the time (& effort) to read:- Negara:- The theatre state in 19th. century Bali -- Clifford Geertz, ISBN 0 691 05316 2 Princeton University Press I used the word "effort", because I do not find this work as easy to digest as Wiener, it can be an effort to get through, but it does clarify the way in which Balinese realm & society functioned before the puputans, before the tourists, and before the erosion of traditional ways.