Indonesian? Short Sword for Comment

kai · 5th March 2022, 09:20 PM

Yes, I'm with David - more pics from the hilt (all sides)!

A. G. Maisey · 5th March 2022, 09:26 PM

Yep, Jawa.

RobT · 6th March 2022, 03:48 AM

David, kai, A. G. Maisey,

Thanks for the ID. I will post more shots of the hilt tomorrow. From what I saw online, there is a common form which includes a cross guard but there are a good number of specimens which don't have a cross guard and have variously shaped hilts. However, none of the hilts I saw were short and chunky like mine so I will really be interested in your comments when I post more detailed shots of the hilt and ferrule that came with my blade. One thing is for sure, looking at the online pictures of the various sheaths shows that the sheath I have doesn't belong with the blade.

Sincerely,
RobT

A. G. Maisey · 6th March 2022, 04:44 AM

Actually Rob, I'd be quite happy to accept the scabbard as acceptable for this pedang.

This is very humble pedang, and a plain, simple scabbard such as this pedang has is quite in order. Even if the scabbard was not made for this blade in the first place, it is still in my opinion 100% OK for it.

RobT · 7th March 2022, 03:56 PM

Hi All,

In my last post I had said that I would post hilt pictures on Sunday but the stomach virus that hit me had other plans so here are the shots a day late. The steel ferrule is really odd.

A. G. Maisey,

Its nice to know that the sheath is at least acceptable (if a bit ill fitting).

Sincerely,
RobT

A. G. Maisey · 7th March 2022, 07:57 PM

This hilt form is usually done in kerbau horn, when it has been done in Solo the carver will usually intend it to be a representation of the Rojomolo, the spirit of the Bengawan Solo (Solo River). However, it can be intended to be any spirit world form, any mythical form, or none at all.

This is an explanation given to me by several hilt carvers in Solo during the 1970's & 1980's.

As with many of these things, only the carver would have known the true answer.

Actually this particular hilt looks like the product of an owner of the pedang, not somethng done by a professional carver.

David R · 7th March 2022, 08:54 PM

I always find it interesting when something looks like a "user" rather than a "poser". I am profoundly ignorant of blades from this area, but also very interested in them..... to me this looks like a "user"!

naturalist · 8th March 2022, 06:37 AM

Resembling of "ceker kidang" (Barking Deer/Muntjac foot) ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

Hi All,

In my last post I had said that I would post hilt pictures on Sunday but the stomach virus that hit me had other plans so here are the shots a day late. The steel ferrule is really odd.

A. G. Maisey,

Its nice to know that the sheath is at least acceptable (if a bit ill fitting).

Sincerely,
RobT

RobT · 9th March 2022, 02:07 AM

naturalist,

Given the shape on the bottom of the pommel of my hilt, your ID of ceker kidang is tempting but there is one thing that must be noted. There a good many online examples of swords with ceker kidang hilts and, in virtually every example, the back of the hilt curves smoothly down to the pommel. The only exceptions I could find were newly made (very late 20th to 21st century). While my hilt may not be original to the blade, it does have some age and those less traditionally shaped new hilts don't look like mine either. It must be asked then, why would someone making a replacement handle for himself go against a culturally accepted norm? Especially since the traditional shape would be easier to make.

Sincerely,
RobT

6th March 2022, 03:48 AM	#3
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 555	ID Thanks & More Hilt Pics To Come David, kai, A. G. Maisey, Thanks for the ID. I will post more shots of the hilt tomorrow. From what I saw online, there is a common form which includes a cross guard but there are a good number of specimens which don't have a cross guard and have variously shaped hilts. However, none of the hilts I saw were short and chunky like mine so I will really be interested in your comments when I post more detailed shots of the hilt and ferrule that came with my blade. One thing is for sure, looking at the online pictures of the various sheaths shows that the sheath I have doesn't belong with the blade. Sincerely, RobT

7th March 2022, 03:56 PM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 555	Hilt Shots Hi All, In my last post I had said that I would post hilt pictures on Sunday but the stomach virus that hit me had other plans so here are the shots a day late. The steel ferrule is really odd. A. G. Maisey, Its nice to know that the sheath is at least acceptable (if a bit ill fitting). Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

9th March 2022, 02:07 AM	#9
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 555	Rojomolo vs Ceker Kidang naturalist, Given the shape on the bottom of the pommel of my hilt, your ID of ceker kidang is tempting but there is one thing that must be noted. There a good many online examples of swords with ceker kidang hilts and, in virtually every example, the back of the hilt curves smoothly down to the pommel. The only exceptions I could find were newly made (very late 20th to 21st century). While my hilt may not be original to the blade, it does have some age and those less traditionally shaped new hilts don't look like mine either. It must be asked then, why would someone making a replacement handle for himself go against a culturally accepted norm? Especially since the traditional shape would be easier to make. Sincerely, RobT

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5th March 2022, 09:20 PM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Yes, I'm with David - more pics from the hilt (all sides)!

5th March 2022, 09:26 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Yep, Jawa.

6th March 2022, 04:44 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Actually Rob, I'd be quite happy to accept the scabbard as acceptable for this pedang. This is very humble pedang, and a plain, simple scabbard such as this pedang has is quite in order. Even if the scabbard was not made for this blade in the first place, it is still in my opinion 100% OK for it.

7th March 2022, 07:57 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	This hilt form is usually done in kerbau horn, when it has been done in Solo the carver will usually intend it to be a representation of the Rojomolo, the spirit of the Bengawan Solo (Solo River). However, it can be intended to be any spirit world form, any mythical form, or none at all. This is an explanation given to me by several hilt carvers in Solo during the 1970's & 1980's. As with many of these things, only the carver would have known the true answer. Actually this particular hilt looks like the product of an owner of the pedang, not somethng done by a professional carver.

7th March 2022, 08:54 PM	#7
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,121	I always find it interesting when something looks like a "user" rather than a "poser". I am profoundly ignorant of blades from this area, but also very interested in them..... to me this looks like a "user"!