1822 British Lancer Mameluke

JT88 · 7th February 2022, 07:41 PM

Well I got an expert opinion and they said: “It is of the earlier form of c. 1805 period, but likely 1810-20. Without the regimental devices in motif it is hard to say, but the motif in your fittings resembles one from the 9th Lancers.”

I think this is as far as deduction can carry us on this Mameluke. The blade may have been acquired during the second Egypt expedition in 1811. The British did loot a lot of blades then, then put together back in England. As for the scabbard motifs, if they are ONLY found on lancer blades. I think it can be assumed this was a lancer’s, though of which unit I’ll never know. Glad to have stirred some healthy discussion here. Calien has many beautiful Mamelukes. I’d be happy to post my Pala here but there isn’t anything to learn on that one.

Bryce · 8th February 2022, 02:57 AM

G'day JT88,
The 11th Hussars also had similar motifs on their scabbard bands and cross guards. I think you can call it "in the style favoured by light cavalry officers", but you can't narrow it down to just Lancers.
Cheers,
Bryce

JT88 · 8th February 2022, 09:59 AM

Where do you see the 11th Hussar example?

Bryce · 8th February 2022, 09:01 PM

If you google "11th Hussars mameluke" you can find several examples on the web.

Going back to Calien's mameluke by T Symmons 102 Pall Mall, I stumbled across an example on the net which does have a Runkel blade. Either Symmons was in business before 1815 or he was using old stock?

Cheers,
Bryce

JT88 · 8th February 2022, 11:36 PM

I did, and I see no 11th Hussar mamelukes that have the same fittings??

Bryce · 9th February 2022, 12:43 AM

You are right. The 11th Hussars sword I posted above has exactly the same design on the crossguard (with the addition of the Egypt battle honour) as marked 9th Lancers examples, but the scabbard bands have a similar, but not the same motif.
Cheers,
Bryce

JT88 · 21st February 2022, 07:49 PM

Well guys I appreciate all the responses! The detective work is always fun, if not the best part about collecting antique weapons, though I want to consider myself a historian and not an antiquarian so the research will always continue, but this has come to an end for now at least.

I did my write-up on the piece and posted it to SBG

Cheers!

https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/t...mameluke-sword

8th February 2022, 09:01 PM	#4
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 187	If you google "11th Hussars mameluke" you can find several examples on the web. Going back to Calien's mameluke by T Symmons 102 Pall Mall, I stumbled across an example on the net which does have a Runkel blade. Either Symmons was in business before 1815 or he was using old stock? Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

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7th February 2022, 07:41 PM	#1
JT88 Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 52	Well I got an expert opinion and they said: “It is of the earlier form of c. 1805 period, but likely 1810-20. Without the regimental devices in motif it is hard to say, but the motif in your fittings resembles one from the 9th Lancers.” I think this is as far as deduction can carry us on this Mameluke. The blade may have been acquired during the second Egypt expedition in 1811. The British did loot a lot of blades then, then put together back in England. As for the scabbard motifs, if they are ONLY found on lancer blades. I think it can be assumed this was a lancer’s, though of which unit I’ll never know. Glad to have stirred some healthy discussion here. Calien has many beautiful Mamelukes. I’d be happy to post my Pala here but there isn’t anything to learn on that one.

8th February 2022, 02:57 AM	#2
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 187	G'day JT88, The 11th Hussars also had similar motifs on their scabbard bands and cross guards. I think you can call it "in the style favoured by light cavalry officers", but you can't narrow it down to just Lancers. Cheers, Bryce

8th February 2022, 09:59 AM	#3
JT88 Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 52	Where do you see the 11th Hussar example?

8th February 2022, 11:36 PM	#5
JT88 Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 52	I did, and I see no 11th Hussar mamelukes that have the same fittings??

9th February 2022, 12:43 AM	#6
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 187	You are right. The 11th Hussars sword I posted above has exactly the same design on the crossguard (with the addition of the Egypt battle honour) as marked 9th Lancers examples, but the scabbard bands have a similar, but not the same motif. Cheers, Bryce

21st February 2022, 07:49 PM	#7
JT88 Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 52	Well guys I appreciate all the responses! The detective work is always fun, if not the best part about collecting antique weapons, though I want to consider myself a historian and not an antiquarian so the research will always continue, but this has come to an end for now at least. I did my write-up on the piece and posted it to SBG Cheers! https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/t...mameluke-sword