blade mystery

[Jim McDougall]

While not the exact fuller pattern, I found a similar blade in "European & American Arms 1100-1850" Claude Blair, 1962....#169, it has a blocked area at ricasso section in which I cannot see mark etc. However, it is inscribed ME FECIT HOUNSLO and dated c. 1640s.

Another 'cuttoe' in Blair (op.cit.#165) with a fullered blade of this type with sawback (as in Hounslow blades c.1640s) and latten running wolf.

What is important in this sword posted is that the configuration of the latten running wolf is upside down consistent with German placement of this mark. It is known that Solingen blades were being imported into Hounslow with this mark, then often inscribed with Hounslow, makers names of Hounslow, or possibly other inscriptions.

The 'ANNO' term in references suggests of course the year of the blade, such as 'ANNO cross 1660' (Wagner, "Cut & Thrust Weapons", 1967).

"Catalogue of the Sword Collection at York Castle Museum" , P.Newman, 1985, in sword CA778, the maker JOHANNES STAM ANNO 1612
CA730 has Wundes kingshead, wolf between 'magic numbers 1399'.

Therefore it seems pretty compelling that this blade was from Solingen and marked with the running wolf as was the practice c.1630-40s. When in Hounslow, the blades were often inscribed, but many not.
Hounslow was essentially Royalist in times of the Civil War, so the 1553 theory as an ancestral number seems plausible, but the ANNO unusual as a commemorative without further detail.
'Magic numbers' would seem to be placed with the wolf mark.

These blades were often remounted in the 18th century, and many hilts of the 'Hounslow school' were silver and had hallmarks c, 1750s which supports this.

[urbanspaceman]

Thank-you Jim, great research as always.

The latten wolf has cropped-up on Hounslow blades a few times for me; once with a curious X marking and a shield as well (see pics) which I only just missed acquiring.

The mushroom cap and scrolled quillon is typical Hounslow as well so all-in-all my inclination is it is homogeneous, except possibly the grip binding - but I can't be sure.
I sent pics to Dirk and he proclaimed it homogeneous.

Year 1553 can only be commemorating the Lady Jane Grey/Guildford Dudley tragedy but the family lines went everywhere during the following century so no chance of tracking down the owner that way.

One thing I would like to know is who used this very singular wolf latten which is common on Hounslow blades?

[urbanspaceman]

Sorry, should have included the image of the shield; here it is:

[Jim McDougall]

I have been trying to locate more on these Hounslow blades.
With the hanger in the OP, as compelling as the case for 1553 being a commemorative date is, especially having ANNO with it, the following moves toward the use of magic numbers.
These are four numbers, typically used along with the running wolf, in most cases with two of the numbers on either side of the wolf.

The running wolf itself was applied to blades which were made in Solingen to be hilted in Passau, a center for Landsknechts, mercenary forces. These were basically talismanic imbuements, and in many cases numbers with magic properties were combined with them.

In "Cut and Thrust Weapons", E. Wagner, Prague, 1967, material from "Die Klingenmarke 1414(1441)and Related Numerical Signs ", Walter Rose, (Zeitschrifte fur Historische Waffen und Kostumkunde", Vol.14, p.13) :

"...blades forged by Johannes Wundes used 1479; Johannes Kueller used 1495; Meves Berns 1506; Johann Hartcop 1506; Mathias Wundes 1515;and Peter Munich 1436".

Apparently according to Wagner (op.cit. p.76-77) Solingen makers making blades for Passau intended for Archprince Leopold began c. 1611, and through the Thirty Years War, with the running wolf applied as a kind of 'brand'. From there it gained a quality type character.

When the shops with German makers opened in Hounslow, blades with many having the latten running wolf were sent there, and many were inscribed with makers names and ME FECIT HOUNSLOW etc.

In "Catalog of the Sword Collection at York Castle Museum" (P.R.Newman, 1985) numbers of these blades are found in many of the swords.

Most important:
p.48 a dog head sword with English hilt c. 1640-50 has a German blade (no wolf) BUT THE MARKING ANNO 1414.
The numbers 1414 and 1441 are likely the most common magic numbers found on Solingen and some other European blades as they are based on the number 7.
Here the ANNO is found with a 'magic' number , not a date.

Another sword (p.52) has a maker, IOHAN ESALESON ANNO 1641.

Another p.51 , running wolf, number 1561, the hilt c. 1650
CA826, German blade , wolf, 1517
p.50: wolf, German blade 1670
p.29: wolf, 1399, hilt c. 1620-50
p.33: wolf, 1523, c. 1620
p.47: wolf, 1541 c. 1650
p.39 : wolf, 1656

While not helpful for the commemorative date theory on this great hanger, it is an example with a remarkable blade, and it does appear these blades were coming into England from Solingen from early 17th c. years. The mystery numbers on these blades seem largely to be of the 'magical variety, but clearly some represent authentic dates (1650,1670).

Still working on the wolf with the cross over it. It seems like I have seen it before but cannot locate. The shield at the forte only compares with a mark from Verdun (France) but that is too early for this blade (Gyngell and Lenciewicz have it c. 1480). It is similar to Passau types of early 17th but those are unidentified users.

[urbanspaceman]

Thanks again Jim... when do you sleep???

Your information regarding numbers is equally compelling and makes me question my indication of the historical event of 1553.

This business of ANNO alongside numbers is very curious; do you know why it was used?

Incidentally, I found a straight broadsword blade with multiple fullers and a Hounslow stamp on a sword in the York Museum (CA756).

I question a 1500s manufacture date with re-hilting but I don't know where to go to ascertain if such a blade was exported by Solingen back then; or even made back then.

Your referral to the Stortas makes me wonder though. Multi-fullered Schiavonas were common I know.

[urbanspaceman]

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall; Still working on the wolf with the cross over it. It seems like I have seen it before but cannot locate. The shield at the forte only compares with a mark from Verdun (France) but that is too early for this blade (Gyngell and Lenciewicz have it c. 1480). It is similar to Passau types of early 17th but those are unidentified users.[/QUOTE]

Don't let my grasshopper attention confuse: the latten with the crosses and accompanying shield are from the sword I didn't acquire.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Don't let my grasshopper attention confuse: the latten with the crosses and accompanying shield are from the sword I didn't acquire.

Thank you so much, and for the previous response.....the answer is, I sleep little when there is a quest . Most here do not realize the intensity and duration of research that obsesses to find answers. While many find little interest in the minutiae of arms markings etc. , this is how we discover the mysteries they hold.
Far more exciting than just placing a weapon on the wall with a laconic caption

While you did not acquire that sword, the markings are distinct.
That shield at the forte is one very close to an attribution known in Verdun (France) end of 15th c. which is far too early for this blade. I would suspect this to be later used by Passau or Swiss armourers laterin 16th to early 17thc.
Most of these 'armed' devices are regarded as unidentified, but are indeed recorded in collected arms records.

[urbanspaceman]

Yet again we progress, thank-you Jim.

The shield is like a one on a swept hilt rapier I have. You attributed it to a City Guard which is almost certainly correct as far as the rapier is concerned. However, I don't understand what it is doing on that Hounslow Hunting Hangar. Perhaps you are correct and it was simply diverted to England. Were those short curved blades found in military circles during the early 1600s or late 1500s; or even early 1500s?

I've searched as best I can for the origin of my rapier marking but to no avail . One reference I found looked similar. (see attached)