Hungarian swords and references query

Jim McDougall · 22nd April 2021, 05:25 AM

Victrix, thank you so much for this information and these links!
Like you, I will not be able to read these, but always hope for good images and sometimes English captions. The Swedish Arms & Armor Society journal 'Varia" is wonderful, as they publish captions and summaries in English, and gratefully a good number of references do this.

Excellent information!

All very best regards
Jim

Dmitry · 29th April 2021, 11:08 PM

Hungarians keep it close to the vest, when it comes to literature on their swords. Polish swords are close to the Hungarian ones. For some unknown to me reason, Eastern Europeans refuse to publish books on edged weapons in English.
Here's a good recent volume on Polish swords...not in English. https://www.ebay.com/itm/25486890187...IAAOSwM2deP~FI

What is a Transylvanian knot?

Jim McDougall · 30th April 2021, 03:01 AM

Thanks very much Dmitry! good tip on this.
The 'Transylvanian knot' is basically a colloquial term for magic/occult/talismanic wording and symbols found on some Eastern European blades. I have never found any good literature on this, but I think Ariel had some reference to it in one of his obscure references on Hungarian swords.

The convention is similar to the 'magic' motif and decoration on the Caissagnard blades from Nantes in France 18thc.

Dmitry · 1st May 2021, 09:26 PM

In addition to what has already been mentioned, I recommend SPLENDEUR DE L'ARMURERIE HONGROISE, a profusely-illustrated 1999 Belgian exhibition catalog of Hungarian arms from the state museums. Scarce, but possible to find. And in a Romance language, not in magyar!

Jim, what does this Transylvanian knot look like?

Jim McDougall · 1st May 2021, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

In addition to what has already been mentioned, I recommend SPLENDEUR DE L'ARMURERIE HONGROISE, a profusely-illustrated 1999 Belgian exhibition catalog of Hungarian arms from the state museums. Scarce, but possible to find. And in a Romance language, not in magyar!

Jim, what does this Transylvanian knot look like?

The 'Transylvanian knot', if I understand correctly, is simply an idiom describing a phrase or group of symbols or words in acronym or combinations thereof which are intended as talismanic or magical imbuement. As I noted, in the 17th and 18th centuries Europe had popularized these kinds of themes on blades in many cases.

Addendum:
Just found photos of a saber I had, since 1976, but traded it away in the 90s. I bought it from a well known mail order dealer with the 'description' (?) '18th century Hungarian hussar saber. It turned out this was an Arabian saber hilted with a much favored Hungarian blade. I was told the inscription was basically 'jibberish' and non translatable. I was surprised in 2015 to discover this material on the 'Transylvanian knot' which told a lot on these strange words on the blade of this saber. I wish I still had it.

Jim McDougall · 2nd May 2021, 01:42 AM

Adding the photo for previous post as unable to find manage photos attachment in edit.

Victrix · 12th June 2021, 09:14 AM

I found this website in English with bits and pieces on Hungarian history as well as arms & armour: https://www.hungarianottomanwars.com/. It has a local flavour with a lot of info not previously known to me. Seems Tokapi Museum is a must if visiting Istanbul. There’s a wealth of fascinating history in Eastern Europe, which was not encouraged during communist times, but now increasingly being re-discovered locally and shared internationally. It’s like missing pieces of puzzle that contribute to seeing the whole picture.

2nd May 2021, 01:42 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,295	Add photos Adding the photo for previous post as unable to find manage photos attachment in edit. Attached Images

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22nd April 2021, 05:25 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,295	Victrix, thank you so much for this information and these links! Like you, I will not be able to read these, but always hope for good images and sometimes English captions. The Swedish Arms & Armor Society journal 'Varia" is wonderful, as they publish captions and summaries in English, and gratefully a good number of references do this. Excellent information! All very best regards Jim

29th April 2021, 11:08 PM	#2
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Hungarians keep it close to the vest, when it comes to literature on their swords. Polish swords are close to the Hungarian ones. For some unknown to me reason, Eastern Europeans refuse to publish books on edged weapons in English. Here's a good recent volume on Polish swords...not in English. https://www.ebay.com/itm/25486890187...IAAOSwM2deP~FI What is a Transylvanian knot?

30th April 2021, 03:01 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,295	Thanks very much Dmitry! good tip on this. The 'Transylvanian knot' is basically a colloquial term for magic/occult/talismanic wording and symbols found on some Eastern European blades. I have never found any good literature on this, but I think Ariel had some reference to it in one of his obscure references on Hungarian swords. The convention is similar to the 'magic' motif and decoration on the Caissagnard blades from Nantes in France 18thc.

1st May 2021, 09:26 PM	#4
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	In addition to what has already been mentioned, I recommend SPLENDEUR DE L'ARMURERIE HONGROISE, a profusely-illustrated 1999 Belgian exhibition catalog of Hungarian arms from the state museums. Scarce, but possible to find. And in a Romance language, not in magyar! Jim, what does this Transylvanian knot look like?

12th June 2021, 09:14 AM	#7
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	I found this website in English with bits and pieces on Hungarian history as well as arms & armour: https://www.hungarianottomanwars.com/. It has a local flavour with a lot of info not previously known to me. Seems Tokapi Museum is a must if visiting Istanbul. There’s a wealth of fascinating history in Eastern Europe, which was not encouraged during communist times, but now increasingly being re-discovered locally and shared internationally. It’s like missing pieces of puzzle that contribute to seeing the whole picture.