What do I have?

[grendolino]

Originally Posted by David

My apologies if you felt you were being treated like an object. My posts were simply to explain to Alan why i thought no one immediately posted responses. You certainly didn't do anything incorrectly with your post. My suggestion that posting singular items rather than dropping an entire lot in a single post for assessment was just that, a suggestion. And i believe i was clear when i mentioned people who post looking for info to resell that i was not assuming that was your intention. So please don't take offense.
Thanks for saving these from the indolent legions. Frankly, if this is your entry point into the world of keris you probably did much better with this lot than most beginner keris collectors.

Thank you. Much appreciate this post and with Deep relief.

[grendolino]

As I see the first one is controversial most I propose to continue solely on it.
It is 38 cm long with 5cm puting. Ganja is 9 cm wide and 1.3 thick in thickest point. Blade is sharp on both edges. Pamor is hardly visible but present and lis/edges, are plain as, sorry for comparison, on chinese or Viking swords so gusin is clear. From the point where grooves (srawingan?) Ends the section is symmetrical and romboid.
Overall shape almost exactly match the Balinese one which I have, but is thicker.
Steel seems to be the good one and almost no rusty comparing to the rest- i did not touch them so far.
Overall shape, proportions and manufacture is for me attractive and to be honest it was this one which attract me to but the bunch.
I try to attach some macro photos when I catch the time.

[David]

Originally Posted by grendolino

As I see the first one is controversial most I propose to continue solely on it.
It is 38 cm long with 5cm puting. Ganja is 9 cm wide and 1.3 thick in thickest point. Blade is sharp on both edges. Pamor is hardly visible but present and lis/edges, are plain as, sorry for comparison, on chinese or Viking swords so gusin is clear. From the point where grooves (srawingan?) Ends the section is symmetrical and romboid.
Overall shape almost exactly match the Balinese one which I have, but is thicker.
Steel seems to be the good one and almost no rusty comparing to the rest- i did not touch them so far.
Overall shape, proportions and manufacture is for me attractive and to be honest it was this one which attract me to but the bunch.
I try to attach some macro photos when I catch the time.

Well, i see that both #1 and #6 seem to have some mixed reactions. Frankly i don't believe either of these are Peninsula blades. My gut feeling on #1 would be Alan's second choice, Lombok. It is a bit on the short side for blades from this area, but Lombok often presents examples that don't quite fit into normal pigeonholes.
On #6 i would look to Sumatra as i stated previously. It is Bugis, but the Bugis people were everywhere throughout the archipelago. As Alan suggested, better images of the hilt might help pin this down.
The metal piece in #8 is not a sarong, it is a pendok. It may still have the gandar (sheath stem) inside it though. I agree those who placed this in Sumatra. The motifs seem to confirm that.

[A. G. Maisey]

In respect of the pendok motif.

I have seen this motif and this pendok design on a number of keris that people who have vastly more knowledge of Bugis-type keris than I do have classified as "Sulawesi Selatan".

If I had this pendok in hand and could closely examine construction & workmanship, I might be able to give a supportable opinion on origin, but as is often the case, I have a lot of problems with trying to be too definite from what I think I can see in photographs.

The gandar also is totally impossible for me to place accurately from a photograph, and probably I would not even want to give a definite opinion even with it in my hand.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In respect of the pendok motif.

I have seen this motif and this pendok design on a number of keris that people who have vastly more knowledge of Bugis-type keris than I do have classified as "Sulawesi Selatan".

If I had this pendok in hand and could closely examine construction & workmanship, I might be able to give a supportable opinion on origin, but as is often the case, I have a lot of problems with trying to be too definite from what I think I can see in photographs.

Well, i wouldn't argue with you on this. I've always found the differences between Sulawesi Bugis and Sumatra Bugis difficult to determine, so you may well be correct on this.

[A. G. Maisey]

Not my call David, I cannot tell Bugis style keris nor dress from one place from Bugis style keris or dress from any other place.

I have seen some copies of Bugis dress made in Bali, made in Surabaya, and made somewhere else in Jawa. It looks the same as the real deal but there are minor differences in construction

However, Ahmad Ubbe, Andi Irwan Zulfikar & Dray Vibrianto Senewe are respected collectors of Bugis edged weapons, they authored "Senjata Pusaka Bugis". In this book they attribute keris with pendok having the same and comparable motifs to the one being discussed here to South Sulawesi.

In fact, in this book, keris that I would place squarely in the Peninsula or in the Eastern Islands are attributed to South Sulawesi. I do not have a particularly high regard for Bugis keris, they do not directly relate to my specific area of enquiry, thus over the years I have not paid much attention to them. I'm afraid that long contact with Central Javanese attitudes has had some effect upon my own ideas.

So I am not claiming that this pendok is from South Sulawesi, I am only advising that the joint opinion of three experienced, specialist Bugis collectors classify pendoks with motifs like this one as being of South Sulawesi origin.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Not my call David, I cannot tell Bugis style keris nor dress from one place from Bugis style keris or dress from any other place.

I have seen some copies of Bugis dress made in Bali, made in Surabaya, and made somewhere else in Jawa. It looks the same as the real deal but there are minor differences in construction

However, Ahmad Ubbe, Andi Irwan Zulfikar & Dray Vibrianto Senewe are respected collectors of Bugis edged weapons, they authored "Senjata Pusaka Bugis". In this book they attribute keris with pendok having the same and comparable motifs to the one being discussed here to South Sulawesi.

In fact, in this book, keris that I would place squarely in the Peninsula or in the Eastern Islands are attributed to South Sulawesi. I do not have a particularly high regard for Bugis keris, they do not directly relate to my specific area of enquiry, thus over the years I have not paid much attention to them. I'm afraid that long contact with Central Javanese attitudes has had some effect upon my own ideas.

So I am not claiming that this pendok is from South Sulawesi, I am only advising that the joint opinion of three experienced, specialist Bugis collectors classify pendoks with motifs like this one as being of South Sulawesi origin.

Well Alan, this Minangkabau keris crossed my screen this morning, posted by a friend on another forum. I don't see much chance that this keris had a Sulawesi pendok added to it later. The entire ensemble looks pretty original to me and clearly from Sumatra. So i think i might have to dismiss your Sulawesi experts on this one.