Balkan gun with early turkish barell

[Philip]

Originally Posted by eftihis

Thanks Philipp! The question is when the first "tulip" ottoman barell was made? Was it inspired by the english one, or the opposite happened? BEcause if i read well the barell's inscription has a date that corresponds to "1517"! Here are some more similar ottman barells.

Re the date you observe, how confident are you that the inscriptions can reasonably be dated to the time of manufacture? I'm wondering what the context of the date might be, is there accompanying text that can give us something more to hang our hats on?

My gut impression is that the Ottomans, like virtually all the Eastern cultures, developed firearms in a derivative fashion, based on impetus and technology input from the West.

Europe made the transition away from the "handgonne" (basically a small cannon barrel on a wooden handle, fired by an external combustion source) when the first matchlock arquebuses appeared as early as the first decade of the 1400s, based on dated illustrated manuscripts (see Howard Blackmore, Guns and Rifles of the World (1965). These early firearms contained the basic elements of all portable firearms today: a barrel, a mechanical firing mechanism activated by a trigger, both mounted on a stock that permits aim and controlled discharge.

Do you have Dr Robert Elgood's Firearms of the Islamic World? On p 32, he notes from intensive research into archival material that it is reasonably certain that the Ottomans were exposed to the matchlock gun in encounters with Italian (probably Venetian) arquebusiers in the Hungarian service in the Balkans. This was, according to the texts he consulted, during the 1420s. A decade or so after the first RECORDED appearance in Europe (although this based on surviving documents mentioned in the previous paragraph, we don't know if it could have been a bit earlier).

Surviving Italian guns of the 1400s are few (a number are shown in Agostino Gaibi's Armi da Fuoco Italiane) along with illustrations from a codex from later in that century, and none of the barrels had bulbous or tulip shaped muzzles.

Looking at the subsequent development of Ottoman firearms (16th-17th cent.) one sees an evolution that appears to follow in lockstep certain technical and stylistic stages seen in Europe, especially Italy and the Germanic countries. For example:
1. Rifles: polygonal barrels with swamped (gently flaring muzzles with flat terminus), and rifling with an odd number of round-bottom grooves
2. Miquelet lock of "Spanish" type: earliest developed examples extant dating from 1620s Spain and Brescia (Italy) shortly thereafter, some of those having the long "bridge" between cock pivot screw and priming pan characteristic of all Ottoman, Balkan, and Persian derivations down to the 19th cent.
3. Certain buttstock shapes of north Italian origin appearing later in the Balkans.

Based on the general context of firearms development in the Ottoman lands, I tend to lean towards a Western origin of the bulbous muzzles under discussion, and lean towards the belief that England was the origin of this unique feature, based on Mr Godwin's assertion in his article that this form is strongly associated with the work of English artificers.

To which I would like to suggest -- if you would look at Moroccan guns all the way up to the dawn of the 20th cent., we see snaphaunce locks almost identical to Dutch and English originals, buttstock shapes echoing those of these regions, and in many cases a varying degree of bulbosity to the muzzle

Years ago, I had a nice Moroccan afedali silver-wire-inlaid snaphaunce gun with a very bulbous muzzle rivaling the ones posted on this thread in its proportions. Unfortunately, it got traded away without my taking picture of it and I'm kicking myself now!

[TVV]

I cannot read the date, but the barrel sure looks very early. Very nice gun overall, but that barrel has the potential to be special,

Teodor

[kwiatek]

Very interesting piece. I don’t think it’s a date. It looks like, with a slightly strange spelling

الحافظا الله

“The Protector is God”

You would instead expect it to be

فالله خیر حافظا

“And God is the best of protectors”

The latter is Koranic (12:64) and common as an inscription on weapons.

[corrado26]

The lock bears at the left side the lion mark of Venice. Probably this gun has been made in the bay of Kotor Boca Kotorska), which stood under Venice government and where have been lots of the well known and wonderful Ledenica all metal pistols

[rickystl]

Hi Eftihis

Almost missed your Thread. WOW!! What an attractive and interesting musket. It certainly does have a Greek/Albania/Turkish flavor to it. LOL

And I agree with Philip's comprehensive comments.

Most of the stock, with it's iron fittings and shape remind me of the Greek muskets. But the butt stock construction reminds me of the muskets from Southern Albania.

As mentioned, the barrel would likely be of Turkish origin. I've never personally seen one up close. You do see barrels from Moroccan snaphaunce with the smaller bulbous muzzle as Philip mentions above. There is a good possibility the barrel is indeed older than the rest of the gun. That would not be surprising. And as Philip mentions, it's a feature that came about during a much earlier period. But, other than aesthetics, I can't come up with a potential reason for the large, over-sized tulip shaped muzzzle (?) I'll have to think about this for a while LOL Also, the decoration and inscriptions on the top of the barrel are most interesting. Don't recall seeing a similar pattern.

If you get a chance, maybe you can take a pic of the bore at the muzzle and a couple pics of the lock.

Again, Congratulations. Great looking addition.

Rick

[eftihis]

Thank you all for your comments! For me the most possible scenario is that this musket was built in a Venetian controlled area, using a captured ottoman barell and a lock from Venetian arsenal. However, the problem is i cannot trace this form of barell in manuscripts and icnography of the period (16th-17th c). Also althought this tye of barell is for sure early turkish. i cannot find it in Askeri museum objects. Also Turkish collectors whom i talked with, they dont know this design! Is it possible taht is a desigm manufactured somewhere in teh Balkans after the ottoman conquest? Here is another musket that uses this type of tylip barell (i thinh in a second use). It belonged to a Cretan revolutionary and is held in the historic-ethnological museum of Athens.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by eftihis

i cannot find it in Askeri museum objects. Also Turkish collectors whom i talked with, they dont know this design! Is it possible taht is a desigm manufactured somewhere in teh Balkans after the ottoman conquest? Here is another musket that uses this type of tylip barell (i thinh in a second use). It belonged to a Cretan revolutionary and is held in the historic-ethnological museum of Athens.

I think you have a point, this type of gun appeared after the Ottoman conquest which as we know was largely completed by the end of the 15th cent.
Do you have access to catalogs of or journal articles based on the museum collections in other parts of the Balkans, such as at Zagreb or Sofia? In the past I have seen publications, in various languages, of arms of different types in museum collections in the Balkan countries. Unfortunately I do not have these in my library, these were published several decades ago so would have to be located on the antiquarian book market.