Cut-steel smallsword (not mourning)

[fernando]

Originally Posted by shayde78

... I wanted to clarify that this blade is NOT hollow-ground. The faces of the blade are totally flat...

Oops .
Still i wasn't considering that triangular 'flat' blades were a feature primarily created for sword canes. I am perhaps influenced by seeing these in other weapons like, for the case, genuine daggers and stillettos. Not to speak that is not uncommon that captions in books/catalogues depicting swords with triangular blades omit the hollow ground particular ... as in two that i am looking at, now.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by fernando

Oops .
Still i wasn't considering that triangular 'flat' blades were a feature primarily created for sword canes. I am perhaps influenced by seeing these in other weapons like, for the case, genuine daggers and stillettos. Not to speak that is not uncommon that captions in books/catalogues depicting swords with triangular blades omit the hollow ground particular ... as in two that i am looking at, now.

"Oops" indeed!

Yes Fernando, I also had several smallswords with triangular blades (still have two or three if I remember correctly), but none has this flat-faced triangular cross-section.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Shayde ,
Actually it does seem that most do present with a degree of description, however your descriptions were most diligent and more important you added what research you had already completed. This is most valuable so as to not have everyone seeking roads you have already traveled, and they can focus on either corroborating or rebutting data presented with other supported material.

Too often a weapon is presented simply without any information asking for identification or comments with little or no text. Personally, it means a lot to me as there are so many weapons I do not have great knowledge on and I enjoy learning.

I had misread your comments on the blade and thought this was hollow ground as were most triangular (triple faced) blades for these swords. I have not been familiar with simple flat faced blades of this kind.

My impression was always that blades for short swords were intended to be 'fast' that is light and manueverable, and the 'hollowing' was to remove excessive stock thus lightening the blade, and strengthening.

It was mentioned that sword cane blades were triangular and the suggestion of being flat faced. As these were not intended for 'fencing' of any sort (despite Hollywood) that would seem more likely. It seems that actual blades intended for swords might be implemented for canes as well.

It would be interesting to see a thread on sword canes, an esoteric area of edged weapons I have never seen touched on here (reminders welcome).

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... It would be interesting to see a thread on sword canes, an esoteric area of edged weapons I have never seen touched on here (reminders welcome)...

Sure there has been quite a few threads on this subject, Jim. Only you don't recall; probably because they didn't catch your interest at the time. I have had a few of those myself and definitely posted them here.
Not pretending to hijack the present thread, just remembering that these 'devices' exist(ed) in various parts of the world, mounted with blades from authentic toothpicks to salvaged ones from early periods and of the finest quality.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Sure there has been quite a few threads on this subject, Jim. Only you don't recall; probably because they didn't catch your interest at the time. I have had a few of those myself and definitely posted them here.
Not pretending to hijack the present thread, just remembering that these 'devices' exist(ed) in various parts of the world, mounted with blades from authentic toothpicks to salvaged ones from early periods and of the finest quality.

Thank you Fernando, I'm not surprised there have been mentions of these, but you're right, not to my attention at the time. It stands to reason that many notable heirloom blades would end up in these fashionable 'devices'.
Now my interest is well piqued, so off we go and perhaps a new thread will evolve from this curiosity.

[shayde78]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Shayde ,
My impression was always that blades for short swords were intended to be 'fast' that is light and manueverable, and the 'hollowing' was to remove excessive stock thus lightening the blade, and strengthening.

It was mentioned that sword cane blades were triangular and the suggestion of being flat faced. As these were not intended for 'fencing' of any sort (despite Hollywood) that would seem more likely. It seems that actual blades intended for swords might be implemented for canes as well.

For what it is worth, weighing a mere 1.25 lbs, and being well balanced, this example handles quite well, with a quick and nimble point. I'm not sure the extra cost incurred to hollow the flats would have resulted in a better performing weapon. In fact, given the larger size and weight of the hilt, a lighter blade would have had to be longer, and this may have exceeded the parameters that were the norm for the period. The hilt, of course, could have been reduced, but as an exercise in ostentation, that would defeat the purpose of showing off.

[urbanspaceman]

I have a sword of very similar style that I have always referred to as a Court Sword.
The chain knuckle-guard is purely a decorative affectation really and obviously of no defensive use.
Various additional attachments at each end were common and assorted.
Your version is particularly elaborate and very attractive.
This hilt is almost certainly a product of the Soho factory of Matthew Boulton, Birmingham;
his catalogues offered a multitude of variations on numerous themes (1,400 plus if memory serves).
The black/blued hilt was indeed intended to emphasise the studded and cut steel decoration.
The scabbard may have been left as its natural parchment finish; although variations abound.
The big question is who was producing those blades at the time: if it was the mid to latter half of the 18thC then they may well have come from Olley in Shotley Bridge; although Solingen was still a huge supplier with pedlars like Runkle importing vast quantities. I doubt Klingenthal was getting its blades into this country at that time for obvious reasons.
The gilt and blue decoration on my blade was ubiquitous and left a trail of miserable deaths in its wake as the application process used mercury and was extremely hazardous; it was probably on your blade when new.

[urbanspaceman]

Incidentally, the parts of the hilt commonly referred to as Pas D'ane should more accurately be called 'Branches' according to Aylward, and were there specifically to support the shell.

[Jerseyman]

I agree with urbanspaceman - I would categorize this as a court sword or a diplomatic service sword.

No disrespect intended, but I would say that whilst this is obviously a genuine item I do think it's a munitions-grade version. I would point to the relatively crude finish on the quillons, the hilt, the ricasso block, the misaligned sharp edges, the lack of beveling, the thickness of the branches/pas d'anes.

The plain triangular blade also reinforces that impression. I've seen them a number of times, but always on the lower grade of hilts. My belief is that they required less time and expertise to manufacture and were therefore cheaper.

If you search the internet for steel-hilt small sword you will see images of other versions of these and be able to compare those with a more refined finish.

My opinion is that this piece was made when manufacturing processes were becoming increasingly industrialised and standardised. Look at the chain - I would suggest that each piece was stamped out and marked by machine, rather than handmade. Expensive items continued to be handmade, or at least hand finished, whilst cheaper items for the lower end of the market used less time-intensive methods of production.

Just my opinion.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Incidentally, the parts of the hilt commonly referred to as Pas D'ane should more accurately be called 'Branches' according to Aylward, and were there specifically to support the shell.

I also agree, this appears to be a dress sword worn more as a fashion accoutrement than a weapon, however of course, could function if called upon.
As the industrial age progressed, of course there was a decline in the craftsmanship and the quality was affected accordingly.

This is a most interesting note on the nomenclature of these hilts, and the term pas d'ane is notably intriguing. The term 'branch' as noted went to the functionality of these rings to support the shell guard, and was used in the manner of the more developed rapiers which often had complex guard branch systems.

Egerton Castle (1885, p. 231) says, "...the meaning of the word is obscure, and unhappily we have no English equivilant. 'Pas d'ane' according to Littre', is an instrument inserted into the mouth of a horse to keep it open for examination. Such an instrument may bear resemblance to our loop guards, but the question is whether it was so called in the 15thc.Athough the pas d'ane and ring adjuncts to hilt not in fashion earlier than 16th c-several instances show them as early as 14th c. ".

The colloquial use of terms associated with horse head gear and sword element comparisons seem to be in place in a number of cases.

The reduction of the pas d'ane came about due to masters of fence trying to dissuade the propensity of the finger through these pas d'ane rings as techniques changed.