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Old 23rd September 2020, 07:28 PM   #1
Jean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

as did I myself before KBB.

Kocetkocetan is a species of beetle; kusiya is to be pale with exhaustion.
Hello Alan,
What is KBB please?
I would suspect that kusia has a different meaning in Lombok Sasak language?
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Old 23rd September 2020, 10:03 PM   #2
A. G. Maisey
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KBB > "Keris Bali Bersejarah"

"EK" is now common for "Ensiklopedi Keris", so I innovated.

Yes, "Kusia" could easily be a Sasak word, or Balinese dialect, or Basa Dalang, or anything else. However, when we think of Lombok, we need to think of Balinese Lombok and Sasak Lombok. Balinese Lombok was essentially an extension of Bali and used Balinese, the Sasak people are mostly Muslim, I feel it is unlikely that Muslim Sasaks would invent a name for a keris hilt worn by Balinese Brahmins.
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Old 24th September 2020, 08:16 AM   #3
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Thank you Alan. BTW the EK describes the kocet-kocetan hilt as balinese and the kusia hilt from Lombok but it is subject to caution of course....
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Old 24th September 2020, 08:45 AM   #4
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Agreed.
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Old 25th September 2020, 05:12 AM   #5
Gavin Nugent
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This Kocet-Kocetan example is held in the Denpasar Museum.

Gavin
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Old 26th September 2020, 11:27 PM   #6
A. G. Maisey
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This hilt is silver, it was acquired in Bali in 1974.

Some of us might call it a kocetkocetan, others might call it a kusia, some might say that kocetkocetan & kusia are the same , no difference, but then some people might be quite positive that there is a difference between a kocetkocetan & a kusia.

So if we were to belong to this last group of people who do believe that there is a difference, what might we name this particular hilt?
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:31 AM   #7
Anthony G.
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It is a beautiful silver hilt.

Btw, is kocetan considers a form of grasshopper, locust as I have impression the head does looks like a grasshopper. And Kusia considers as a beetle with the legs form?
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Last edited by Anthony G.; 27th September 2020 at 03:52 AM.
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Old 27th September 2020, 06:21 PM   #8
kai
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Hello Alan,

Quote:
Some of us might call it a kocetkocetan, others might call it a kusia, some might say that kocetkocetan & kusia are the same , no difference, but then some people might be quite positive that there is a difference between a kocetkocetan & a kusia.

So if we were to belong to this last group of people who do believe that there is a difference, what might we name this particular hilt?
Can we try to get a definition first or try to resolve, if there really is any difference in either style and/or origin/symbolism?

Gustav has quoted an early source from the colonial period which suggests that the name kusia was utilized in Klungkung; with Klungkung earlier occupying quite a chunk of Lombok, it does't not come as a surprise that this name was also known/utilized on Lombok, too. Are there possibly other Balinese kingdoms in which another name (or names) might had been utilized? (BTW, is kepompong also a Balinese word?)

I'm not really interested in any name game but would love to hear if there really are any stylistic differences that can be associated with any cultural/symbolic differences (or any related symbolism in Balinese religion or folklore) rather than reverse engineering from current collectors' POVs.

Regards,
Kai
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