old shamshir

francantolin · 28th April 2020, 04:26 PM

Hello,
Thank you David!!

I like when old forgotten stuff revive again !!

( I think it's the same for all members on this forum !

)

Finally I think that's the handle is the most interesting piece :
Nice translucence,
Giraffe or maybe rhino !?!

Battara · 29th April 2020, 02:01 AM

Nice job. Yes the hilt could be rhino horn.

Have you etched the blade yet?

francantolin · 29th April 2020, 08:11 AM

Hello and Thank you,

No I haven't etched it,
I have no more ferric chloride ( and no nital here...)

I cleaned the blade with sand paper
WD-40 and vinegar alternately , maybe there is a pattern,
maybe a structure on the guard too

sure I have to try...

Kubur · 29th April 2020, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Hello,
Finally I think that's the handle is the most interesting piece :
Nice translucence,
Giraffe or maybe rhino !?!

If I put a torch behind by ears for sure they will be red.
But my ears are not rhino...

francantolin · 29th April 2020, 09:55 AM

Sure !

But I don't think your ears are brown when not enlightened
and hope for you they are not thick and hard and fibrous as wood ...

I have other brown horn hilts and no light at all

mahratt · 29th April 2020, 10:49 AM

Thank you for taking a photo backlit. Now the structure of the horn shows that this is not a rhino ...

Green · 29th April 2020, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Thank you for taking a photo backlit. Now the structure of the horn shows that this is not a rhino ...

How does the rhino horn look like when it is backlit ?

Kubur · 29th April 2020, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

How does the rhino horn look like when it is backlit ?

Lines more straight, more compact amd without scales

ariel · 29th April 2020, 01:47 PM

Francantolin:

You got an honest old munition grade shamshir. I like those. Whether it was made in Persia proper, or in one of the "persianized" localities is and will remain unknown, but the overall gestalt is no doubt Persian.

Not every Persian or any other fighter was wealthy enough to afford a walrus handle. This is why we see a lot of Persian shamshirs utilizing cheaper handle materials such as oxhorn, deer antler and even wood. From the practical point of view it did not matter: the proof was in the blade, although even those were of a widely different quality.

It is just like with all other antique objects: museums tend to collect and exhibit flashier examples in a perfect state of preservation: rich materials, weapons belonging to royalty, signed by famous masters etc. Simpler examples were lost, reforged, modified, or just rusted away.

The al-Sabah collection in Kuwait specifically acquires only items that are gem-encrusted, gilt or made of exotic and costly materials. If we use it as as a representative source and a standard, all other Indian weapons would be regarded as renovated or just plain fakes.

mahratt · 29th April 2020, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Lines more straight, more compact amd without scales

Absolutely right

28th April 2020, 04:26 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	Hello, Thank you David!! I like when old forgotten stuff revive again !! ( I think it's the same for all members on this forum ! ) Finally I think that's the handle is the most interesting piece : Nice translucence, Giraffe or maybe rhino !?! Attached Images

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29th April 2020, 02:01 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,299	Nice job. Yes the hilt could be rhino horn. Have you etched the blade yet?

29th April 2020, 08:11 AM	#3
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	Hello and Thank you, No I haven't etched it, I have no more ferric chloride ( and no nital here...) I cleaned the blade with sand paper WD-40 and vinegar alternately , maybe there is a pattern, maybe a structure on the guard too sure I have to try...

29th April 2020, 09:55 AM	#5
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 906	Sure ! But I don't think your ears are brown when not enlightened and hope for you they are not thick and hard and fibrous as wood ... I have other brown horn hilts and no light at all

29th April 2020, 10:49 AM	#6
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Thank you for taking a photo backlit. Now the structure of the horn shows that this is not a rhino ...

29th April 2020, 01:47 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Francantolin: You got an honest old munition grade shamshir. I like those. Whether it was made in Persia proper, or in one of the "persianized" localities is and will remain unknown, but the overall gestalt is no doubt Persian. Not every Persian or any other fighter was wealthy enough to afford a walrus handle. This is why we see a lot of Persian shamshirs utilizing cheaper handle materials such as oxhorn, deer antler and even wood. From the practical point of view it did not matter: the proof was in the blade, although even those were of a widely different quality. It is just like with all other antique objects: museums tend to collect and exhibit flashier examples in a perfect state of preservation: rich materials, weapons belonging to royalty, signed by famous masters etc. Simpler examples were lost, reforged, modified, or just rusted away. The al-Sabah collection in Kuwait specifically acquires only items that are gem-encrusted, gilt or made of exotic and costly materials. If we use it as as a representative source and a standard, all other Indian weapons would be regarded as renovated or just plain fakes.