MY FIRST BARONG

Tim Simmons · 9th May 2006, 01:37 PM

I too can see your point in this case as the damage had already been done by aggressive polishing the ruination of many antique metal items. The etching is in the form of restoration it looks great . On the other hand, to take an example like the thread starter which is a nice clean barong with a developing patina, you can see the quality of the blade and one could always look with the aid of a glass, etching a bit like needlessly rubbing it with a rough abrasive paper, is as damaging as polishing. In my mind.

Rick · 9th May 2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I too can see your point in this case as the damage had already been done by aggressive polishing the ruination of many antique metal items. The etching is in the form of restoration it looks great . On the other hand, to take an example like the thread starter which is a nice clean barong with a developing patina, you can see the quality of the blade and one could always look with the aid of a glass, etching a bit like needlessly rubbing it with a rough abrasive paper, is as damaging as polishing. In my mind.

To be honest Tim if I might disagree ; the subject Barung seems to have been polished after the fact .

I don't think that is the original finish

Tim Simmons · 9th May 2006, 05:30 PM

I think you may well be right Rick. If I can see the blade quality through my PC then in the flesh it must look more than acceptable, all I would ask Flavio is to err on the side of caution. I would rather it was mine I have to say.

nechesh · 9th May 2006, 06:14 PM

Hey Tim. i don't think brushing this blade with a little warm vinegar on a sunny afternoon is liable to do much damage to the blade. The idea of doing such an etch isn't necessarily to see the blade quality, but to showcase the pattern within. Sometimes these patterns can be very beautiful. On the otherhand, i have a kris that i treated this way and found that the pattern wasn't really much to look at afterall so i lightly polished it away. In either case though, i think the blade looked/looks much nicer then when i first recieved it.

Rick · 9th May 2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I think you may well be right Rick. If I can see the blade quality through my PC then in the flesh it must look more than acceptable, all I would ask Flavio is to err on the side of caution. I would rather it was mine I have to say.

You're not going to go Moro on us are you Tim .

Philiphilia can be phun .

/ducks

Tim Simmons · 9th May 2006, 06:51 PM

I am already Barong barmy. This one was shown a long time ago on the old forum. A Borneo Barong. I do not think this blade has any fancy structure, quite a long blade. A formidable general purpose weapon and tool.

Battara · 9th May 2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Philiphilia can be phun .

Wonderul Rick. Thank you (I think I'm going to cry

).

Sometimes I leave the top part of the ganga alone to show some evidence of the originial patina.

BTW - Spunger - nice etching job.

Flavio · 9th May 2006, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

To be honest Tim if I might disagree ; the subject Barung seems to have been polished after the fact .

I don't think that is the original finish

Hello Rick, i have bought this one from MR. Yarom, and it is arrived as you can see from pictures. I don't know if this is the original finish or if it was polished.

Battara · 10th May 2006, 01:48 AM

I doubt Artzi would have polished it and left it shiny. I think what Rick was refering is what I mentioned earlier, that later owners early in this century loved shiny things and may have polished this puppy.

Rick · 10th May 2006, 03:40 AM

Correct .
When I look at the close up shot of the hilt I can see what look like polishing marks running across the grain of the steel near the hilt .
Artzi would most likely not do something like this ; he tends to leave such pieces as he finds them as far as I know .

Spunjer · 10th May 2006, 05:48 PM

thanks for the props, battara.

you're right, ian, in that cleaning of the gangya is a bit tedious as with the case on this kris, but there's nothing like vinegar, toothbrush, and baking soda can't do

.

flavio's barung looks as if it was polished awhile back. so the question is:
is it ethical to remove the polish even if it was done back in the early days by whoever brought it here even if the patina is starting to build up over it, or should the blade be etched as it was originally intended by the people who carried it? i prefer the latter. also, who know what lurks behind that sheen?

Oriental-Arms · 10th May 2006, 07:55 PM

Now that the source of this Barong is wide open, I feel I can add my comments:

This is a very nice and complete Barong. We had it since long time and surprisingly none of our many good customer did find it earlier. I can not remember if I polished / etched it or not. Probably not.

To the main question: To polish and etch it or leave the original patina, my opinion is very clear: We should refer to it as the original owner did. If there is a pattern expected to be found than polish and etch it to bring it out. Like other marks of quality (The eyelashes marks, the running wolf, the Assad Allah signature and others) that were copied by blade makers all over the world and at all times, the pattern, either wootz, or pattern welded or laminated is also a mark of quality and the owners were proud to show it to all. During the life time of the blade the owners had to sharpen it and by doing so he erased the pattern and had to polish the blade to bring it back. So why can’t we do the same??

In addition many times polishing and etching brings pleasant surprises. The Barong below was collected in the flea market in New York for next to nothing:

it looks very simple and nothing of particular interest. A light polish and etch brought up this:

It is one of the best laminated Barong blades I have seen.

There was a comment above about the Arabs polishing their blades to mirror polish. To the best of my knowledge it is very wrong. Arabs admire the wootz blades (Johar as they call it) and do every thing to bring it up and show it to all for exactly the same reason: Look what a good blade I have.

A word of caution: Improper polishing and etching may be a very destructive process. If you are not experienced, do not try it without good clear instructions

9th May 2006, 05:30 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,856	I think you may well be right Rick. If I can see the blade quality through my PC then in the flesh it must look more than acceptable, all I would ask Flavio is to err on the side of caution. I would rather it was mine I have to say. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 9th May 2006 at 05:48 PM.

9th May 2006, 06:51 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,856	Barong Barmy I am already Barong barmy. This one was shown a long time ago on the old forum. A Borneo Barong. I do not think this blade has any fancy structure, quite a long blade. A formidable general purpose weapon and tool. Attached Images

10th May 2006, 05:48 PM	#11
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thanks for the props, battara. you're right, ian, in that cleaning of the gangya is a bit tedious as with the case on this kris, but there's nothing like vinegar, toothbrush, and baking soda can't do . flavio's barung looks as if it was polished awhile back. so the question is: is it ethical to remove the polish even if it was done back in the early days by whoever brought it here even if the patina is starting to build up over it, or should the blade be etched as it was originally intended by the people who carried it? i prefer the latter. also, who know what lurks behind that sheen? Attached Images

10th May 2006, 07:55 PM	#12
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	Polish and etch it or not Now that the source of this Barong is wide open, I feel I can add my comments: This is a very nice and complete Barong. We had it since long time and surprisingly none of our many good customer did find it earlier. I can not remember if I polished / etched it or not. Probably not. To the main question: To polish and etch it or leave the original patina, my opinion is very clear: We should refer to it as the original owner did. If there is a pattern expected to be found than polish and etch it to bring it out. Like other marks of quality (The eyelashes marks, the running wolf, the Assad Allah signature and others) that were copied by blade makers all over the world and at all times, the pattern, either wootz, or pattern welded or laminated is also a mark of quality and the owners were proud to show it to all. During the life time of the blade the owners had to sharpen it and by doing so he erased the pattern and had to polish the blade to bring it back. So why can’t we do the same?? In addition many times polishing and etching brings pleasant surprises. The Barong below was collected in the flea market in New York for next to nothing: it looks very simple and nothing of particular interest. A light polish and etch brought up this: It is one of the best laminated Barong blades I have seen. There was a comment above about the Arabs polishing their blades to mirror polish. To the best of my knowledge it is very wrong. Arabs admire the wootz blades (Johar as they call it) and do every thing to bring it up and show it to all for exactly the same reason: Look what a good blade I have. A word of caution: Improper polishing and etching may be a very destructive process. If you are not experienced, do not try it without good clear instructions

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9th May 2006, 01:37 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,856	I too can see your point in this case as the damage had already been done by aggressive polishing the ruination of many antique metal items. The etching is in the form of restoration it looks great . On the other hand, to take an example like the thread starter which is a nice clean barong with a developing patina, you can see the quality of the blade and one could always look with the aid of a glass, etching a bit like needlessly rubbing it with a rough abrasive paper, is as damaging as polishing. In my mind.

9th May 2006, 06:14 PM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hey Tim. i don't think brushing this blade with a little warm vinegar on a sunny afternoon is liable to do much damage to the blade. The idea of doing such an etch isn't necessarily to see the blade quality, but to showcase the pattern within. Sometimes these patterns can be very beautiful. On the otherhand, i have a kris that i treated this way and found that the pattern wasn't really much to look at afterall so i lightly polished it away. In either case though, i think the blade looked/looks much nicer then when i first recieved it.

10th May 2006, 01:48 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,282	I doubt Artzi would have polished it and left it shiny. I think what Rick was refering is what I mentioned earlier, that later owners early in this century loved shiny things and may have polished this puppy.

10th May 2006, 03:40 AM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Correct . When I look at the close up shot of the hilt I can see what look like polishing marks running across the grain of the steel near the hilt . Artzi would most likely not do something like this ; he tends to leave such pieces as he finds them as far as I know .