Afghani pulwar: old and ( perhaps) revealing

[ariel]

Just to add fuel to the discussion:-)

Here are 2 sabers. Both have thickly-patinated " tulwar" handles, but with a twist: their pommels are cup-like without lids. Both have crude fleuret terminals of their quillons. The upper one has no pin through the quillon bloc, but the lower one does.
The blade of the upper one is typically Afghani, the lower one - likely Afghani, but may conceivably be of NW Indian origin. No evidence of newer mastique, it is pretty crumbled and some of it is lost in both cases. Very ( very!) cautiously I would conclude that the entire handle/blade assemblies are original or at the very least belong to the working life of these sabers.

Overall, my interpretation:
-both are most likely old Afghani swords. Judging by the fleuret-like quillons, they may be 18 century ( See discussion of Jens' example from his book, p. 321 and its picture posted by him).

Are they, as well as my earlier example with brass handle, predecessors of the full-blown Pulwar pommel?

[Battara]

Thanks for posting these Ariel. I know that the cupped parts of Indonesian piso pedangs come from Indian influence like these.

[ariel]

Yes, Indians brought it to Sumatra together with Hulu Meu Apet ( original Gulabhati).
BTW, is it piso pEdang or piso pOdang? I remember a version that Podang was derived from Portuguese espadao ( -ao pronounced as -ang), "a sword". We have Portuguese gurus here, let them enlighten us.

Sword with both of those handles seem to have a whiff of European influence, with Achenese Peudeung often carrying European blades. Apparently, it was not popular there; the locals preferred swords that were heavy in their distal end to amplify their slashing power.

[Battara]

I stand corrected and I think your spelling is the correct one - piso podang.

Thanks for catching that one .

[ariel]

Not at all: it's my autistic obsessive-compulsive demon raising its head:-)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Difficult to see exactly the way this hilt developed but I tend to think it was closed originally but in some the top fell off thus the open examples available. Were these strange pommels not used as fillers for seeds or small pebbles? in fact below is a turbaned or ball pommel and it indeed is filled with small pebbles or seeds ...

Pulouar is a Hindu word meaning flower from its more accurate spelling PHULA. Tulvar probably came from the same word. I wondered if it was from the Poppy? I show the poppy seed box below>>> is this perhaps the origin of the pommel in this case?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...7&page=4&pp=30 illustrates a number of similarities and on the Blade at Ariels example it has peculiar parallel lines. Are these representative of the tears of the afflicted grooves and in the copper/brass inlaid dots are these pearls or tears in solid form?

[mahratt]

Ibrahiim al Balooshi, original and beautiful version.