Elephant swords

[fernando]

Hello Jens,
I wonder whether you have suggested that it was time to stop posting in this thread beause of critics (read complaints) over freewheeling material or if you were yourself tired with such contextually inevitable digressions.

Now if i may ...Your present citation of Ludovico di Barthema describing war elephants in the kingdom of Bisnaga (Vijayanagara), while bringing nothing particulary new on the subject, confirms something that the skepticals would reject as being a real fact and, at same time, shows consistency with approaches alread contained (even quoting Barthema) in this very thread;the inteligence of the animal, his ability to understand human comand voices, the sword/s he carries in battle and all.
The difference in the manner the animal is sadlled, mounted and equiped with weapons (swords) may obviously depend upon the region of the Indin sub-continent where this takes place ... or even differ from one arsenal to another.

If this is not too soon, enjoy a Merry Christmas .

[ariel]

Now, with these data ( and hints) we can approximate the weight of an “ elephant sword”.
Using Enrico Fermi’s approach ( guesses will correct each other), let’s assume that the average length of braccia is 55 cm, i. e. Blade 110 cm long, width of 10 cm ( width of human palm) and thickness 2 cm ( thickness of human palm), the volume of the blade will be ~2200 cm3. Steel has density of 7.85 g/cm3. Thus the weight of the sword is ~17 kg. Quite manageable, especially for the elephant, but massive enough to cut a soldier thru and thru.

Nikitin, as I suspected , exaggerated a bit even by Russian standards, but this is common to all travelers. Still, it was not an Indian kentar.

Now, we just need a Bollywood movie showing the elephant in action. Blood and gore galore, followed by song and dance on the body-strewn battlefield! I have popcorn ready.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by fernando

If this is not too soon, enjoy a Merry Christmas .

Fernando,
It’s never too soon for good wishes! Same to you and yours!

But... we have Thanksgiving coming next Thursday and are sentenced to chew on a mass of semidigested cardboard popularly known as “turkey”.

This year I am making Leg o’Lamb! With dried apricots and cherries, a touch of Jamaican Jerk ( don’t tell my daughter!), a lot of garlic ( do tell her that!) and a twig of rosemary on the side.
Side dish: basmati rice with real Persian saffron and a lot of almonds.

Our son is bringing over his fiancée. Proposed her month ago, and got enthusiastic “yes”. Yuoo-hooo!!!

Memo to myself: thou shall not overcook lamb.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Fernando, I could not bring anything other than what I have read. I am sorry if you dont find it interesting.
All the best for Christmas and New Year to you.



Ariel, yes your weight suggestion could be correct - about 17 kg.
I think most woud have lost their fighting spirit, if knocked at the body or on the head, by an elephant with such a sword.
The dish you are making sounds fantastic:-).

[fernando]

Do i see some misunderstanding with the braccia interpretation ?

One braccia, italian for fathom, is equivalent to approx. 1,83cm.
Reason why i commentd in my post #63 that two fatoms, allegedly mentioned by Barthema, was surely an exageration.
In a copy of this traveller's Itinerary translated to Castillian in 1526 by Christoval de Arcos, the author mentions 'dos codos' (two cubits) which gives us a more rational length for such swords; a cubit measuring 44-52 cms.

Hopefuly no criticism pops up for freewheeling entries .


,

[fernando]

Ariel, i confess i wouldn't realize that being a Chef was within the range of your abilities. I take it that skipping the plastified turkey and opt for (not over) cooking leg of lamb is a strategy to captivate your future daughter in law .
We don't have Thanksgiving day over here ... but we do have lamb, basmati, lots of smashed garlic and lots of spices (that our navigators brought from India whereabouts).

[ariel]

Originally Posted by fernando

Ariel, i confess i wouldn't realize that being a Chef was within the range of your abilities. I take it that skipping the plastified turkey and opt for (not over) cooking leg of lamb is a strategy to captivate your future daughter in law .
We don't have Thanksgiving day over here ... but we do have lamb, basmati, lots of smashed garlic and lots of spices (that our navigators brought from India whereabouts).

Yup, you guessed it:-)
And do not short-change Mozambique’s Piri-Piri!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by ariel

... And do not short-change Mozambique’s Piri-Piri!...

Which i and my wife* are fans of; half dozen varities in the spices chest.
*She is a Caucasian but has grown up in Moçambique ... were she caught me, during my army service.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by ariel

... Thus the weight of the sword is ~17 kg. Quite manageable, especially for the elephant, but massive enough to cut a soldier thru and thru ...

A bit too heavy, though ... despite Fermi's formula. No hollow parts ?

[ariel]

Originally Posted by fernando

A bit too heavy, though ... despite Fermi's formula. No hollow parts ?

Well, no real sword is an ideal rectangle. It might have been curved and narrowing toward the tip, might have had fullers, the “thickness” likely reflects the back and could have had narrowed down toward the edge etc.
You are correct: 17 kg might be an idealized maximum, that’s why I put a range 15-20 kg.

[kronckew]

For your continued enjoyement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmpx4QTeMKk

[Jens Nordlunde]

Very funny Knocknew, you really must be a person with a lot of humor:-).


As none of us have an elephant sword, we are guessing, but when it comes to the weight, I think Ariel is close.


Fernando, you must temember that measurers/weights were more floating centuries ago - and we are speaking about the 16th century.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

...Fernando, you must temember that measurers/weights were more floating centuries ago - and we are speaking about the 16th century...

You are right Jens; i am aware of that.
I was more focusing on the particularity that each interpreter mentions measure units that are so distant in length from each other. Braces have nothing to do with cubits, no matter their floating through time.


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