Cut steel decorations on Indian arms

[ariel]

Mahratt,
Please relax: I like my sword. You may think it is a newly-made souvenir, but I think otherwise and do not wish to spend my breath arguing with you.

Also, please stop bombarding me with serial requests to answer your queries and do not try to sound sarcastic. It does not work on me: I choose people whose opinions to value and whose to ignore and somehow you do not belong to the former.

Perhaps, you may wish to just ignore my posts; this will improve the atmosphere on this Forum as well as your personal disposition. Follow Pushkin’s advice:” ... when dark thoughts enter your soul, uncork a bottle of champagne or re-read The Marriage of Figaro”.

[mahratt]

Ariel,
I'm glad you like your "sword". And I'm completely relaxed, because this souvenir "sword" is not in my collection

I have long noticed that you are trying to call all the questions uncomfortable for you on the forum "sarcastic." This is a very convenient position. This position attracts moderators who ask to stop the discussion. This allows you not to answer questions that you have no answers

I am surprised that you do not follow your own ideas and do not ignore my messages. More precisely, you ignore my messages, but only when you have nothing to answer. For example, as in the question with "knives allegedly bought by the Tsar in Bakhchisarai in 1837."

You probably have a constant lack of champagne at home .... But I am ready to send you a gift "The Marriage of Figaro" in Russian

[mahratt]

I think now that we have figured out the "unique sword", we can return to the main topic of discussion.
Given that for such swords as Pata, the blade is fixed with rivets, this mount is probably quite strong.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Quote - I think now that we have figured out the "unique sword", we can return to the main topic of discussion. - end of quote.


Sorry Mahratt, but I think you losst the overview, as the main topic is not rivets, but Cut steel decorations on Indian arms.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Sorry Mahratt, but I think you losst the overview, as the main topic is not rivets, but Cut steel decorations on Indian arms.

Yes, Jens, you are absolutely right. Forgive me for my inattention. It’s just that the topic has gone a little from the main direction. But I think that Pata, which I showed in the subject, is also suitable for discussing steel jewelry on Indian weapons. Here, the steel decorations on top are decorated with gold.

Well, another example of steel jewelry. By the way, I will be very grateful if you express your opinion on the dating of this Katar

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Well, another example of steel jewelry. By the way, I will be very grateful if you express your opinion on the dating of this Katar

Beautiful Katar, but more detailed photos would be welcomed.

My guess is that the blade is one piece with the "bolster", then the arm guards and the transverse grip are forge welded to form one single piece.

Many of these Katars were made for the foreigner collectors around 1900, and yours may be one of them.

I have seen earlier examples in wootz, but it does not appear to be the case of this one... or is it?

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Beautiful Katar, but more detailed photos would be welcomed.

My guess is that the blade is one piece with the "bolster", then the arm guards and the transverse grip are forge welded to form one single piece.

Many of these Katars were made for the foreigner collectors around 1900, and yours may be one of them.

I have seen earlier examples in wootz, but it does not appear to be the case of this one... or is it?

It is quite possible this is 1900. I'm not sure about the dating. Therefore, I ask the views of the forum participants.
I will try to make better photos at the weekend.
Blade - wootz

[Jens Nordlunde]

What I had in mind when I started the link was more like this.
There are a lot of peacocks, but to find them, you either need my catalogue, or to look after what peacocks looked like in the late 16th or early 17th century.

[mahratt]

Unfortunately, it turned out that I - bad photographer And I can’t take a good picture of my кatar.
But, I found my кatar on the website of Artzi Yarom (аlthough he did get into my modest collection not from Artzi). So I decided to put a photo and description from the Artzi website:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2351
"Kаttar push dagger, North India, probably late 18 C or there about. The heavy blade 10 inches long and 2 inches wide is forged from fine Indian wootz steel ( crystalline) and finely chiseled with hunting scenes on both sides: Tigers, elephants and horse riders. Heavy armor piercing tip. Total length 19 inches".
I think no one will have any doubt that Artzi saw wootz on the blade of this кatar?
The only thing I disagree with is the dating of кatar - the late 18th century. I think that my кatar can be dated to the first half - the middle of the 19th century.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by mahratt

The only thing I disagree with is the dating of кatar - the late 18th century. I think that my кatar can be dated to the first half - the middle of the 19th century.

Well dealers have to sell so they are always optimistics...
19th c is reasonnable, look at this one in the British museums
Acquired by King Edward VII, when Prince of Wales, during his tour of India in 1875-76.
You have a nice katar by the way

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Kubur

19th c is reasonnable, look at this one in the British museums
Acquired by King Edward VII, when Prince of Wales, during his tour of India in 1875-76.
You have a nice katar by the way

Thank you!
The dating of my кatar with the 19th century, and not with the 18th century, does not bother me. I am not trying to find "very old unique rarities"

[mahratt]

An interesting Indian bazuband from the collection of my friend.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Its a very nice bazuband.
I have often wondered how they, with the primitive tools they had, were able to make these steel cuttings.


For those of you who like riddles. Have a look at the pata I showed. There are a lot of peacocks at the edge of the gauntlet. If you dont see them, look for how the peacocks were shown in the 16th to 17th century.