Tulwar info please.

[mariusgmioc]

Judging from the photos is difficult, but from what I see there is nothing "touristy" about this blade. Generally the "touristy" stuff is characterised by heavily decorated (mainly etched) blades, without a properly shaped cutting edge with blades of low carbon content that bend easily.

You seem to have a honest 19th century (my guess) Tulwar meant for business (the business being fighting).

While the photos do not appear to show an Indian ricasso, the general shape of the blade appears Indian to my eyes. But of course, better photos including the markings would be very useful.

Many old, rusty Tulwars have wootz blades and yours may be one... but this is a lottery.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Norman, have a look at the form of the attached. On the back of the blade there is an inscription refering to Amir Kamar who ruled in Sind from 1811 to 1828 AD.


Is the makers mark a katar? If yes then I have a surprise for you.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the information and the interest.

Hi Jens,
The mark could very well be the outline of a Katar. The periphery of the mark where it is not protected by the langets is a bit faint, use I guess. I have added another image which I think gives a better view of what's left of the mark. The steel has very little spring, I suspect it would not break if overly bent but would take a set. Better a bent blade than a broken one though. The cast decoration on the langets is noticeably more worn on one side consistent with the sword having been suspended on the left hand side edge down.
My Regards,
Norman.

[mross]

What would be the procedure to determine wootz?

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by mross

What would be the procedure to determine wootz?

Polish it, then etch it, on a small area. If yes, then the whole blade.

I have made a thread about this long ago.

Here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21732

[Jens Nordlunde]

Long ago I read somewhere, that in north west India no contract or deal was signed without the drawing of a katar. To this comes, should should anyone not keep to the deal, he should comit suiside - ok, it mostly came to a cut on the arm - but some had several cuts!
The pictures shown below are, I am sure from the forum, but I dont know to whom the sword belongs.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Long ago I read somewhere, that in north west India no contract or deal was signed without the drawing of a katar. To this comes, should should anyone not keep to the deal, he should comit suiside - ok, it mostly came to a cut on the arm - but some had several cuts!
The pictures shown below are, I am sure from the forum, but I dont know to whom the sword belongs.

The marking appears to be a Katar, albeit somehow different from the one in your example. However, drawing a katar is one thing and puncing/engraving one on the ricasso of a blade is something different. Anyhow, a very interesting story. It would be great if you remember/find the source.


The presence of this marking appears to confirm the Indian origin of the blade.

It is a real pity there are no documented sources regarding the Indian swordsmihs & armory marks.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Long ago I read somewhere, that in north west India no contract or deal was signed without the drawing of a katar. To this comes, should should anyone not keep to the deal, he should comit suiside - ok, it mostly came to a cut on the arm - but some had several cuts!
The pictures shown below are, I am sure from the forum, but I dont know to whom the sword belongs.

I recall our discussions and observations on this Jens and it was years ago!
Egerton, (1880, p.137):
Notes that before 1835 no deed or agreement was binding unless guaranteed by the mark of the katar, and if broken required 'traga' (dramatically suicide, but realistically simply blood drawing). The bards of Gujerat were guardians of 'traga' and seldom ever appeared without the katar. ………"...a representation of which was scrawled beside their signatures, and rudely engraved on their monumental stones"

This entry refers to the people of Kathiawar and specifically the Kattees of Gujerat.
These regions were south of Afghanistan, Sind and Baluchistan but still effectively part of the 'Northwest' sphere so understandably likely to have features of the swords of these areas.
It seems also understandable that these 'katar' marks on these blades might be associated with these Kattee's and their keen use of the katar symbol.

I only added this detail as I think it is perhaps key in the character and possible classification of this tulwar , as Jens has well noted.
Truly a remarkable example Norman, and well parallels the one Jens has entered in comparison.