Twist core fullered blade moro kris for id please

Ian · 23rd August 2019, 07:37 PM

Hi chief:

All of the quality examples I have seen in collections or museums have had a well polished blade. In the original culture, an antique and important blade such as this would have been polished well and most likely etched.

At the very least you need to remove the active rust, such as present on the tang. Your latest pics suggest to me that this sword did not have any asang asang during its life (at least, I see no evidence of such) which might also argue for an older transitional piece.

Congrats on another fine addition to your collection.

Ian

chiefheadknocker · 23rd August 2019, 07:47 PM

Hi Ian
Thanks for your help and guidance , once ive cleaned it up i will then be looking for a suitable hilt , i guess this will be quite difficult but surely not impossible to find ,
regards
chief

Rick · 24th August 2019, 01:14 AM

Is the tang round?

chiefheadknocker · 24th August 2019, 06:08 AM

Hi rick , yes the tang is round

kai · 24th August 2019, 07:55 AM

I'm having the same thoughts as Gustav - I'm far from sure this blade really is Moro. Some features may well point to the Jawa-Bali nexus. I need to dig into this in more detail..

Not all archaic Sulu kalis seem to exhibit a topographic etch though; given the vagaries of traveling blades and subsequent restorations, I don't think we can place much weight on this kind of evidence.

Regards,
Kai

CharlesS · 24th August 2019, 01:34 PM

The care and precision of chiseling are especially impressive on this blade.

chiefheadknocker · 24th August 2019, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

The care and precision of chiseling are especially impressive on this blade.

Hi yes the chiseling is very sharp and deep , i have cleaned the blade which makes it show up a little better

Gustav · 24th August 2019, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I'm having the same thoughts as Gustav - I'm far from sure this blade really is Moro. Some features may well point to the Jawa-Bali nexus. I need to dig into this in more detail..

Not all archaic Sulu kalis seem to exhibit a topographic etch though; given the vagaries of traveling blades and subsequent restorations, I don't think we can place much weight on this kind of evidence.

Regards,
Kai

Kai, despite this blade being so close to old Java/Bali, I would say, at the moment it looks like a very early Moro blade to me. It's other question if all archaic blades are Sulu blades indeed.

I don't completely understand your point in sentence about topographic etch if it relates to my previous post - maybe my English was wrong or wasn't clear enough. Surely blades travel and are subsequently differently treated - but the absence of topographical etch on an archaic blade makes it "more archaic" in my eyes - I don't think topographical etch was en vogue before the second half of 18th cent.

kai · 24th August 2019, 10:19 PM

Hello Gustav,

IMHO a topographic etch can also develop on blades that are (gently) kept in polish; this does seem to be quite common with older Bugis-influenced blades. I rather doubt that any topographic etch that leaves a porous and ragged surface (as seen on blades that have been treated according to tastes prevailing in Jawa for the last, say, 200 years or so) have ever been popular with any Moro group.

My comment was more directed to Moro blades taken to the US: there certainly were quite some GIs and later generations of collectors who were ingrained to keep blades clean and shiny which most likely resulted in overzealous "cleaning" of many acquired pieces. It's not that rare to have twistcore blades with pretty smooth surface; I suspect that a good portion of these are the result of misguided attempts outside the originating culture rather than representing any "original" condition nor Moro cultural preferences...

Regards,
Kai

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23rd August 2019, 07:37 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,501	Hi chief: All of the quality examples I have seen in collections or museums have had a well polished blade. In the original culture, an antique and important blade such as this would have been polished well and most likely etched. At the very least you need to remove the active rust, such as present on the tang. Your latest pics suggest to me that this sword did not have any asang asang during its life (at least, I see no evidence of such) which might also argue for an older transitional piece. Congrats on another fine addition to your collection. Ian

23rd August 2019, 07:47 PM	#2
chiefheadknocker Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 143	Hi Ian Thanks for your help and guidance , once ive cleaned it up i will then be looking for a suitable hilt , i guess this will be quite difficult but surely not impossible to find , regards chief

24th August 2019, 01:14 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,374	Is the tang round?

24th August 2019, 06:08 AM	#4
chiefheadknocker Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 143	Hi rick , yes the tang is round

24th August 2019, 07:55 AM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	I'm having the same thoughts as Gustav - I'm far from sure this blade really is Moro. Some features may well point to the Jawa-Bali nexus. I need to dig into this in more detail.. Not all archaic Sulu kalis seem to exhibit a topographic etch though; given the vagaries of traveling blades and subsequent restorations, I don't think we can place much weight on this kind of evidence. Regards, Kai

24th August 2019, 01:34 PM	#6
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	The care and precision of chiseling are especially impressive on this blade.

24th August 2019, 10:19 PM	#9
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Gustav, IMHO a topographic etch can also develop on blades that are (gently) kept in polish; this does seem to be quite common with older Bugis-influenced blades. I rather doubt that any topographic etch that leaves a porous and ragged surface (as seen on blades that have been treated according to tastes prevailing in Jawa for the last, say, 200 years or so) have ever been popular with any Moro group. My comment was more directed to Moro blades taken to the US: there certainly were quite some GIs and later generations of collectors who were ingrained to keep blades clean and shiny which most likely resulted in overzealous "cleaning" of many acquired pieces. It's not that rare to have twistcore blades with pretty smooth surface; I suspect that a good portion of these are the result of misguided attempts outside the originating culture rather than representing any "original" condition nor Moro cultural preferences... Regards, Kai