unusual small little moro kris for id please

[chiefheadknocker]

Originally Posted by David

Seriously Chief? You seem to have stumbled upon the holy grail for Moro kris collectors. This is what Cato refers to as an "Archaic" kris. I suppose it is debatable how far back this form goes, but it would certainly be safe to say 17th century. Some might argue this form could be older. I'd say you particular blade could be as old as early 18thC. A very nice score! Congratulations!

Thanks david , i thought this style of blade were the earlier type ,but didnt realise it could be that old, and when i received the sword i was surprised how small it was compared to other moro kris ive owned in the past , its quite badly pitted though ,ive allready cleaned lots of rust off but how far do you go , i think its maybe best to leave it now .
regards
chief

[David]

Originally Posted by chiefheadknocker

i've allready cleaned lots of rust off but how far do you go , i think its maybe best to leave it now .
regards

Well, if it were mine i would surely try to give it an etch with vinegar to see if it has a twisted core. It won't harm the blade.

[chiefheadknocker]

Originally Posted by David

Well, if it were mine i would surely try to give it an etch with vinegar to see if it has a twisted core. It won't harm the blade.

I have cleaned the blade up a little more and tried some vinegar but cant see any pattern , would of been nice to see a twist core , nevermind cant win them all !

[Ian]

Originally Posted by chiefheadknocker

I have cleaned the blade up a little more and tried some vinegar but cant see any pattern , would of been nice to see a twist core , nevermind cant win them all !

You might try to etch it after warming the blade. Vinegar can be a weak etchant on some steels. Also, make sure there is no residual oil or wax on the blade before etching. Isopropyl alcohol is my preferred agent for cleaning off any oil or grease before etching.

[chiefheadknocker]

Originally Posted by Ian

You might try to etch it after warming the blade. Vinegar can be a weak etchant on some steels. Also, make sure there is no residual oil or wax on the blade before etching. Isopropyl alcohol is my preferred agent for cleaning off any oil or grease before etching.

Thanks ian , i have done as you said ,i have some isopropyl alcohol and so ive cleaned it well then heated the blade under hot water , i then cleaned it again whilst it was hot and used vinegar , but still it doesnt show much pattern of any kind , the steel seems very hard , when i first tried removing the rust it took a long time to get it off ,
what else would you recommend to etch it ?
regards
chief

[Battara]

On this nice Sulu early kris, I would try ferrous cloride etchant next.

Another possibility is that it is not laminated after all. I have a 18c blade which is also Sulu (perhaps Tawi-Tawi) and it does not show any laminations either, never mind twist core.

[mross]

Yeah this type is a conundrum, every one of this type I saw was a twist core until it wasn't. Still they are my favorite types to collect. They are very old and as far as I can tell there have been few to no copies of this type in the recent past. I say few just to cover myself, I have never seen a modern copy. So they are old and a very nice edition to your collection. Congrats.

[chiefheadknocker]

Originally Posted by Battara

On this nice Sulu early kris, I would try ferrous cloride etchant next.

Another possibility is that it is not laminated after all. I have a 18c blade which is also Sulu (perhaps Tawi-Tawi) and it does not show any laminations either, never mind twist core.

Hi thanks for your advice , i think i might try ferrous cloride , its worth a go.
i do like this little sword whether its laminated twist core or not its a very tactile piece

[kai]

I agree that a few more rounds of etching are likely to reveal some laminations. No twistcore, I’d guess though.

While phosphoric acid may be safer for a permanent etch (BTW, what concentration is given on your bottle, Dave?), ferric chloride yields a strong contrast for an exploratory etch of a not fully polished surface ; be careful though since it tends to promote ongoing corrosion: I’d just etch a window along the middle of the blade first.

The final approach will depend on the outcome.

Regards,
Kai