Shipping from Italy

[Will M]

My last sword cost 134£ to pack and ship from the UK to Canada.
Once I bought a small lot of 3 kukri and they wanted 150£. I told them I have shipped boxes 3x the size for 100£ and they then dropped the price to 100£, still ridiculous.
One must buy at a low price, get a item worth much more to make it worthwhile.
I also experienced most shippers will not send antique swords. DHL is now on the list with UPS for not taking them. I've had UPS twice take them in and then take over a week to return to sender. Now Parcelforce is the only one I know of who will ship and that's using a inventive description without using the word "sword"

[mariusgmioc]

It seems that common sense is replaced with idiotic rules and regulations everywhere.

Like there were so many crimes produced with antique swords, daggers or guns... There are much more crimes produced with kitchen knives, yet there are no restrictions on those.

No more common sense, no more normality, but a plethora of rules and regulations to replace any trace of rational thinking.

Humanity has entered a downwards spiral to insanity!

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

It seems that common sense is replaced with idiotic rules and regulations everywhere.

Like there were so many crimes produced with antique swords, daggers or guns... There are much more crimes produced with kitchen knives, yet there are no restrictions on those.

No more common sense, no more normality, but a plethora of rules and regulations to replace any trace of rational thinking.

Humanity has entered a downwards spiral to insanity!

PS: Regarding the cost of shipping, I believe in some situations can be justified. First, the shipping company has to pick up the item from the auction house. Then it has to be carefully packed and only then can it be shipped. So it is not only the cost of shipping that we are requested to pay, but also the cost of picking up the items and the cost of packing them.

[ariel]

Ain’t no insanity. Pure psychology. They have your credit card and charge it + auction fee.

Having paid it, do you want to actually get it? Sure you do, otherwise you have lost a heap of money.

So, you grind your teeth and pay for shipping.
It is the oldest scam: in for a penny, in for a pound.

[Will M]

It can seem as a scam when you know the actual price of shipping, a box and bubble wrap is inexpensive. You pay for the labour but they would be picking up many items in an auction making one or two trips to collect. In 3 years it's gone from 80£ to 130£. I've been tempted just to leave the item with the auctioneer and have him resell it with a proper description which would make a profit.
In the US it costs about $20 for packaging and $70 to ship, far less than UK prices, we are closer though, but half price of the UK.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Marius, you are right. Most doent think of this.


Ariel, ha, ha, yes you are right - there are honest firms - but you will have to look for them.


Will, why do you bid in Europe when you know the conditions?

[ariel]

double

[kahnjar1]

....and another "scam" is the Ebay Global Shipping scheme. USPS/Royal Mail/Parcelforce is about half the cost and twice as quick in my experience. I will not bid on sellers who insist on using the Ebay Global Shipping.

As far as shipping from Italy is concerned I once lost an item which was "tracked" all the way from the seller to the Italian Customs clearance and then......NOTHING. Thru the "back door" I found that the item had in fact been returned to the seller, but he denied that!!! What else can one do but not buy from him again!
Stu

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

....and another "scam" is the Ebay Global Shipping scheme. USPS/Royal Mail/Parcelforce is about half the cost and twice as quick in my experience. I will not bid on sellers who insist on using the Ebay Global Shipping.

As far as shipping from Italy is concerned I once lost an item which was "tracked" all the way from the seller to the Italian Customs clearance and then......NOTHING. Thru the "back door" I found that the item had in fact been returned to the seller, but he denied that!!! What else can one do but not buy from him again!
Stu

I recently bought a Co Jang from the US on ebay, which was shipped on the expensive eBay global shipping scheme. Before it left the States it was declared "undeliverable" because it was a weapon. I got my money back but it grieves me that it didn't even go back to the seller, eBay saying they'll dispose of it as they see fit. What is the logic of allowing an item to be sold internationally on your website and then refusing to ship it?

[Jens Nordlunde]

Philip, what you write about the Richard Wagner Jr. collection is very interesting. I have a khanjarli with ivory hilt from the collection, and I have often been wondering why some daggers with ivory were sold in the US and others were sent to the UK to be sold. Now I know why.
In an art magazine I saw pictures of the stripped daggers, and it was quite chocking to see the daggers - good that Richard Wagner never knew about it.


To all others, dont fool with the CITES certificate - if it is needed, get it or you can be in big trouble.

[Richard G]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21422

Hope this works
Richard

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Will M

I also experienced most shippers will not send antique swords. DHL is now on the list with UPS for not taking them. I've had UPS twice take them in and then take over a week to return to sender. Now Parcelforce is the only one I know of who will ship and that's using a inventive description without using the word "sword"

Keep in mind that commercial carriers (courier services like UPS, FedEx, DHL, et al) set their own rules as regards to shipping "weapons" (antique or otherwise) that are independent of national laws regarding ownership or sale of same. They tend not to distinguish between antique and modern, just as
the enforcers of CITES like to turn blind to the distinction between antique ivory and new tsatshkes. Furthermore, the regs can change without notice, and different standards operate in different geographic service areas.

As someone in the biz (mainly restoration), I know firsthand what a nightmare this is. To illustrate (mind you, as examples only and not intended as guidance on your current decision-making), consider this from my experience over the past few years up til now:

1. I used to use FedEx a lot for overseas and domestic (within the US) because their service and tracking is quite good and they tend to beat up parcels less than UPS or the post). However, as of this past spring they have stopped accepting all weapons of any age, even swords and bows/arrows, for overseas transport. This, breaking just as a valuable saber was being sent to me from Europe, caused a real headache on my end.

2. A friend purchased some antique spears from a source in Thailand a couple years back and UPS refused to accept it.

3. But Czernys has used UPS to ship antique firearms outside the EU for some years until UPS backed out in 2017. I bought a fine flintlock fowler from them that year and it was a 9 month journey with fits and starts, first to Belgium and from there to the UK where a freight forwarder licensed to handle firearms sent it to me for a princely sum (fortunately I was able to combine it with another gun bought in the UK and pro-rate the costs). Last year Czernys told me that UPS was "on" again, but I have not tested it simply because nothing in the way of guns offered since has tempted me to bid.

4. UPS ships antique guns within the EU at least for now. But not from Germany overseas. In March I bought a flintlock at Hermann H, they sent it by UPS to someone in a EU country who forwarded it via post with some swords. (US postal regulations have no restrictions on entry of either flintlocks or swords), The cost of both legs of the journey was a fraction of what I paid to the UK firm (see above) and my local customs broker for their services in 2017.

5. I was told that a collector in the US recently received a matchlock musket via UPS from Europe, no problem. Customs declaration stated "matchlock, antique over 100 years old".

The point of this litany is that there is no rhyme or reason to these rules which have little or nothing to do with law, they are just policies created by the giant corporations that are increasingly dominating our lives. (maybe it could be worse, we could be hoeing and scything on manorial land owned by feudal lords).

For now, I mostly use the post for shipping out of the US*, have not had a problem TO DATE, even describing swords as decorative or ornamental, antique over 100 years old. No problem receiving stuff via post either; I'm not too concerned with the occasional Fish and Wildlife inspection for CITES material since I make it clear to customers that I won't accept it on objects for restoration. *to EU and Scandinavia, Canada, Aus/NZ. Israel, Hong Kong addresses -- I avoid having to deal with other regions for obvious reasons. Japan is a special case too since of the country's very tight restrictions on swords.

[kai]

I also did experience shipping quotes from Czerny’s which seemed to be in line with other auctions. If you find a cheaper carrier, I‘d guess they would be happy to hand over your piece and even do the packing for a nominal fee.

If I understand correctly, the main issue with Italy are national legislations imposing quite a bit of rules and associated paperwork on selling and shipping hot as well as cold iron... Even traveling with a very simple pocket knife is pretty much outlawed - I’m sure this really helps with fighting the mafia...

As Philip points out, the idiosyncratic rules of the carriers are often a greater pain than national and international regulations. Even USPS is known to decline overseas shipping of items which are perfectly legal and not restricted in the destination country (as well as the US)!

And, yes, ebay’s global shipping makes things even worse and is much more expensive than any regular shipping including customs fees.

Did I mention my pet peeve - currency exchange rates and fees?

Regards,
Kai

[Philip]

Originally Posted by kai

Did I mention my pet peeve - currency exchange rates and fees?

Regards,
Kai

Kai, this is a bugaboo that hits all of us who need to pay or receive money across borders. It can feel like highway robbery. PayPal uses a crummy rate (for us, not them). Bank rates may be better depending on where you have your account -- but wire transfer fees are a ripoff. For instance, my bank charges me a $15 flat rate fee just to receive a transfer and post it to my account balance. International wires, that involve a currency exchange en route, invariably trigger "intermediary bank fees" that leave the recipient anywhere from $15 to $20 short, depending on the size of the payment. A recent payment from a customer in Europe (outside the euro zone) left me $24 shy of the invoice amount due to these intermediary fees.

For some years now, I have been using, for international transactions, an online service called TransferWise. It uses an electronic funds transfer system that's fast, offers very competitive exchange rates, and only charges a miniscule service fee to the sender. The best thing is that the payee gets exactly the amount you send, no intermediary bank or currency-exchange fees added on. You can find out how it works from their website. It doesn't get any more painless than this.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by kai

As Philip points out, the idiosyncratic rules of the carriers are often a greater pain than national and international regulations. Even USPS is known to decline overseas shipping of items which are perfectly legal and not restricted in the destination country (as well as the US)!



Regards,
Kai

Just got an email from a customer in Germany who wants to send some blades for polishing. Says that the Deutsche Post's parcel service is now run by DHL, and apparently swords are now on their no-take list. UPS will accept weapons so long as they are not firearms (but apparently some auctioneers can use UPS to ship guns within the EU as I pointed out previously).

Now, the kickier: UPS is saying that they will transport his swords but they don't take antiques! No kidding...

Back in the 1980s when I was living in Hawaii I had two problems with UPS and their antiques policy. One, they refused to accept a rare book that I wanted to send to a buyer in England. No artwork, unique collectibles, nor anything "irreplaceable" I was told. Two, I had to battle them tooth and nail for compensation to repair a Russian samovar that they damaged in transit. Tried to deny the claim based on it being antique. I finally convinced them that it was not old, it was "second hand merchandise", not unlike the household crap that bazillions of people ship thru UPS every day. Fortunately the idiots couldn't read the Russian inscription "Sankt Peterburg 1906" stamped on it.

Now, my colleague in the Netherlands has used his shipping consolidator account to cover the charges for the restored stuff I send back to him, invariably UPS gets the pick because of their better rates. All of the stuff is antique and described as such on the declaration form. UPS hasn't uttered a peep about that! Where is the logic?

As to your comment on USPS (US Snail Mail), occasionally a counter clerk will give you the song and dance about "swords are weapons and you can't send them". Simply take the parcel to another station. There is no rule against sending either swords or antiques -- this becomes apparent if you go through the process of preparing international shipping labels on their website since each country's import rules pop up on the screen..

I always recommend to US-based colleagues that if they use US mail, it's best to open an online account and thus prepare your shipping labels and customs dec (for overseas shipments) forms on your computer. That way you just drop off your box for scanning, with labels in the pouch. The clerks don't generally read line-by-line so that removes the temptation to act as impromptu enforcer of an imaginary regulation. If you do the forms by hand, they tend to check more closely.

[Sajen]

Hello Eftihis,

I know your problem, look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=z%FCrich
But like Kai and Philip I know that Czernys' shipping isn't expensive normally! There will be a reason, ask them for the reason. Hope that you will find a solution for the problem.

Regards,
Detlef

[vilhelmsson]

I purchased at Czerny's March auction. The shipping price wasn't too bad. 210 euros for 2 swords and a chainmail shirt to the US.

But there were fish and wildlife holds in Italy and the US, as well as an FDA hold, and it took about a month.

In my discussion with the agency official inspecting my package whom UPS connected me with, I forget whether it was US FDA or F&W, they said that both agencies randomly inspect antiques shipments valued at over $1,000 and it can take a while once they get their mitts on it.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by vilhelmsson

In my discussion with the agency official inspecting my package whom UPS connected me with, I forget whether it was US FDA or F&W, they said that both agencies randomly inspect antiques shipments valued at over $1,000 and it can take a while once they get their mitts on it.

OK, so now we have to deal with CITES on top of shippers who fear that our little community of antiques buffs might be feeding arms to terrorists...

In the US, incoming shipments are subject to random inspections regardless of whether by post or commercial carrier. Officials with the Fish and Wildlife administration are in charge of it; they operate under the bureaucratic umbrella of the US Dept. of Agriculture, and they work hand in glove with Border Control and Customs.

You are correct in that customs declarations are flagged, via contents description and value, for these inspections. "Antiques" and any verbiage pertaining to the decorative arts will trigger an occasional look-see; it's ironic for the recipient because "antique" designation is pretty much a free pass as re: import duty exemption if the thing is over a century old.

In my experience, some dealers who regularly ship to the US might be "flagged" for regular monitoring, likewise for recipients in the US who have been tagged with a "problem" shipment issue before. It's happened with guys I know in the UK and here in the States. And some overseas dealers have led a charmed life, having shipped ivory hilted daggers to the US repeatedly over the last umpteen years til recently.

So it can be a crapshoot... But do you want to take a chance? I have two colleagues in the trade who had problems over FAUX tortoise shell veneered sword hilts, both confiscated by officials who insisted that they were the real thing. One dealer, Europe based, got his merch out of hock after several months of sending in documentation explaining why his hilt veneer was ersatz (it doesn't take a great deal of art expertise to tell the difference). The other fellow, based in the US, had a similar type of sword confiscated en route to an overseas buyer, seized before it left our shores and that case is still unresolved.

The inspections are conducted in varying degrees. Often a simple X-ray scan is enough to clear a shipment, I sometimes receive a parcel with the F&W inspection sticker or tape on the outside, but with the original sealing undisturbed. A few times, the box looked opened and resealed. No problems with undue delays resulting from this, however. I have had far greater issues with carriers erroneously routing the parcel through their hub to another state, and it falling off the tracking net for awhile. Or for postal shipments of all kinds (not just antique weapons) held up for weeks at the USPS' New York international processing center for reasons unrelated to CITES.

[kahnjar1]

Hi Philip.....Interesting first comment of yours regarding Deutschepost/DHL. I have just received a sword from Germany sent by this method and correctly described as a sword, so something does not ring true here.
Stu

Originally Posted by Philip

Just got an email from a customer in Germany who wants to send some blades for polishing. Says that the Deutsche Post's parcel service is now run by DHL, and apparently swords are now on their no-take list. UPS will accept weapons so long as they are not firearms (but apparently some auctioneers can use UPS to ship guns within the EU as I pointed out previously).

Now, the kickier: UPS is saying that they will transport his swords but they don't take antiques! No kidding...

Back in the 1980s when I was living in Hawaii I had two problems with UPS and their antiques policy. One, they refused to accept a rare book that I wanted to send to a buyer in England. No artwork, unique collectibles, nor anything "irreplaceable" I was told. Two, I had to battle them tooth and nail for compensation to repair a Russian samovar that they damaged in transit. Tried to deny the claim based on it being antique. I finally convinced them that it was not old, it was "second hand merchandise", not unlike the household crap that bazillions of people ship thru UPS every day. Fortunately the idiots couldn't read the Russian inscription "Sankt Peterburg 1906" stamped on it.

Now, my colleague in the Netherlands has used his shipping consolidator account to cover the charges for the restored stuff I send back to him, invariably UPS gets the pick because of their better rates. All of the stuff is antique and described as such on the declaration form. UPS hasn't uttered a peep about that! Where is the logic?

As to your comment on USPS (US Snail Mail), occasionally a counter clerk will give you the song and dance about "swords are weapons and you can't send them". Simply take the parcel to another station. There is no rule against sending either swords or antiques -- this becomes apparent if you go through the process of preparing international shipping labels on their website since each country's import rules pop up on the screen..

I always recommend to US-based colleagues that if they use US mail, it's best to open an online account and thus prepare your shipping labels and customs dec (for overseas shipments) forms on your computer. That way you just drop off your box for scanning, with labels in the pouch. The clerks don't generally read line-by-line so that removes the temptation to act as impromptu enforcer of an imaginary regulation. If you do the forms by hand, they tend to check more closely.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Philip.....Interesting first comment of yours regarding Deutschepost/DHL. I have just received a sword from Germany sent by this method and correctly described as a sword, so something does not ring true here.
Stu

Stu, I was simply passing along some info given to me by a customer residing in Germany, who was told this by a DP/DHL guy just a couple days ago when he called them about sending his swords to me in the US.

Like you, I received a sword from Germany some months ago, accepted by DHL for overseas transport and in my case, transferred to the USPS system for delivery to me in California. No problems at least in that case.

Have policies suddenly changed, like the situation with FedEx which I had earlier just as a sword was being shipped (which I alluded to in a prior post)?
Or has my customer just been given a bum steer by the organization in response to his inquiry?

At any rate, thanks for posting this, will contact him via email to advise him of your experience, maybe he can inquire further and get a resolution to his situation.

[kahnjar1]

Hi Philip,
I think that it depends on who you get at the receiving counter. In my experience here in NZ if you happen to be "served" by an over diligent person then you get the third degree. If you are lucky, then the parcel is accepted without any problem.
Luck of the draw.............
Stu

[MForde]

Originally Posted by Will M

My last sword cost 134£ to pack and ship from the UK to Canada.

Was it a larger item than usual? I've sent many swords from the UK to Canada and the US and the average cost for, say, an 1845 Pattern is £40. Parcelforce have been excellent for me and I describe the item accurately without problem. I usually use the normal Parcelforce website BUT if you book international carriages through the Parcel2Go website it often works out to be considerably cheaper - I hope that helps!

[Philip]

Originally Posted by MForde

I've sent many swords from the UK to Canada and the US and the average cost for, say, an 1845 Pattern is £40. Parcelforce have been excellent for me and I describe the item accurately without problem.

Doesn't ParcelForce have a length limit of 36 inches or 100 cm as the case may be? When I ship via post from the US to the UK, I'm subject to a 36-inch limit for International Priority Express which is a service on a comparable level to your PF. Anything longer has to go via the non-express service which takes a few days longer.

[MForde]

Originally Posted by Philip

Doesn't ParcelForce have a length limit of 36 inches or 100 cm as the case may be? When I ship via post from the US to the UK, I'm subject to a 36-inch limit for International Priority Express which is a service on a comparable level to your PF. Anything longer has to go via the non-express service which takes a few days longer.

Hi Philip, I'm not sure but it's certainly possible. I generally use the same cardboard box to ship swords and it's 125cm long.

[kahnjar1]

Further to #25 above regarding the sword sent to New Zealand by DHL Deutschepost, I should perhaps have added that the cost was 47Euro and the parcel weighed 1.78kg. Length was 1m. For the size and distance I would have thought that this cost was very reasonable. It would appear that from the comments posted, that the major part of shipping cost could well be the charge for packing etc.
Stu

[Philip]

DHL just delivered an Indian dagger sent by a customer in Europe for blade polish. Described "Art metalwork, jammadar kattari, Indian >100 years old". Package not opened en route, no stickers or tape from CITES inspection. Took less than a week including a Sat./Sun. to get here.

My colleague in the Netherlands still uses UPS as well as Netherlands Post to send swords to the US. So that leaves FedEx as the absolute no-go for all weapons, antique or otherwise, between countries. (TNT has been bought out by them so it doesn't operate on its own anymore.)

[silberschatzimsee]

i received a dagger by fedex today

but i had to wait for 4 weeks so i also cant recommend them.