On the Flyssa

motan · 21st June 2019, 12:30 PM

Hello,
I saw this dagger that was auctioned yesterday, but I didn't buy it. I am adding it to the thread because this is clearly a Flyssa/Bichak (not Yatagan) hybrid.
My best guess is that it was made in Algeria in Bichak form for some reason, though it is clearly a Flyssa.
Jim, I am not claiming that this has to do with the origin of the Flyssa - it does not look even nearly old enough. I just want to suggest that Ottoman and North African styles were connected. It makes sens if you think of the history of these places and the maritime traffic between them, but here is an actual piece that shows it.

Jim McDougall · 21st June 2019, 05:48 PM

Thank you very much Motan! that is a most helpful entry, and very applicable here. I had honestly not considered the 'bichaq' in the flyssa scenario before Kubur and Ariel brought it to my attention, and while effectively a 'knife' it certainly fits in with the flyssa 'spectrum'.

What you note on Ottoman presence and influences in North Africa is of course well observed. The Ottomans were very present throughout the North African littoral and this 'empire' was far reaching carrying their influences throughout.

As you note, while not necessarily an element of flyssa development, this weapon reflects the overall influences that were likely present in its development. It is as also noted, not necessarily of great age, but it must be remembered that traditional weapon forms typically drew from those of long ago.

It is well known that the proper terms and nomenclature are often confounding in discussing these weapons, but your method of describing them in explanatory manner is much appreciated, as is this excellent entry.
Thank you very much,
Jim

21st June 2019, 12:30 PM	#1
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hello, I saw this dagger that was auctioned yesterday, but I didn't buy it. I am adding it to the thread because this is clearly a Flyssa/Bichak (not Yatagan) hybrid. My best guess is that it was made in Algeria in Bichak form for some reason, though it is clearly a Flyssa. Jim, I am not claiming that this has to do with the origin of the Flyssa - it does not look even nearly old enough. I just want to suggest that Ottoman and North African styles were connected. It makes sens if you think of the history of these places and the maritime traffic between them, but here is an actual piece that shows it. Attached Images

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21st June 2019, 05:48 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Thank you very much Motan! that is a most helpful entry, and very applicable here. I had honestly not considered the 'bichaq' in the flyssa scenario before Kubur and Ariel brought it to my attention, and while effectively a 'knife' it certainly fits in with the flyssa 'spectrum'. What you note on Ottoman presence and influences in North Africa is of course well observed. The Ottomans were very present throughout the North African littoral and this 'empire' was far reaching carrying their influences throughout. As you note, while not necessarily an element of flyssa development, this weapon reflects the overall influences that were likely present in its development. It is as also noted, not necessarily of great age, but it must be remembered that traditional weapon forms typically drew from those of long ago. It is well known that the proper terms and nomenclature are often confounding in discussing these weapons, but your method of describing them in explanatory manner is much appreciated, as is this excellent entry. Thank you very much, Jim