The use of European RAPIER blades in Maratha Pata and Khanda swords

[Jim McDougall]

In beginning this thread, the objective was to determine the use of European RAPIER blades, the extremely narrow types well known on cup and swept hilt rapiers, on Indian swords such as the 'khanda' and the 'pata'.

Further, to determine if these narrow rapier blades might have been used in thrusting, contrary to my own previously held notions on Indian use of the cut or slash only with no provision for thrusting.

The element of etymology as applied in my post, was toward the sometimes broad use of the term 'rapier' by some period writers, and whether reference to 'rapier' blades might well refer inadvertently to the heavier arming blades of European swords, which sometimes shared similar hilts in their original mounts.

My apologies to readers for the specious 'name game' which I may have unintentionally brought on by this reference to that etymological possibility. This has brought up the inevitably contentious terms which plague the study of Indian edged weapons, with 'firangi' at the fore in this case.

As always, I continue with research toward my original question, whether such narrow rapier blades, which are seen occasionally in khanda and pata, might have actually been used as intended.

One of the salient references I found was in Elgood ("Hindu Arms & Ritual", 2004, p.184) where he notes, "...Tavernier * wrote that the European use of the point in fencing was unknown to the Indians in the 18th and 19thc. The Indians also used a number of cuts that were unknown in western sabre practice".
Further, "..Col. Blacker suggested that the Indian cutting stroke was the only one capable of penetrating the layers of cloth in turbans and quilted jacket armor. The native practice not only requires a stiff wrist, but a stiff though not straight elbow, for a cut that shall disable. If correct this would explain the popularity of the 'gauntlet' sword'.

* Tavernier: Jean Baptiste Tavernier (1605-1689), French gem merchant and traveler, known for his extensive journeys, profound skills at observation , perhaps most famously for the blue diamond he acquired in 1666, which became the notorious Hope Diamond. His journeys in India c. 1630-68.

OBSERVATION:
It would seem that referring to the turban and type of quilted armor were the defenses that the warriors attacking were up against, and clearly a narrow rapier blade would not achieve the necessary result in penetration.....it was the powerful cut of the warrior which did.

Another reference to the blades in the gauntlet swords (pata) in Pant (op.cit. p.62) notes;
"..the patta has a long flexible, regularly tapering straight steel blade, almost always double edged and frequently of European make- generally Italian or Spanish FLAT RAPIER blades". (caps are mine).

OBSERVATION:
Here, in foot note, it states a pata bearing the sign of Andrea Ferara , the famed 16th century Venetian smith appears, signature forged.
This of course denotes one of the typical 18th century Solingen made blades which were double edged arming or 'broadsword' blades typically seen in Scottish basket hilts.
A pata I have has typical Solingen astral figures engraved on the blade, being another of these 18th century blades used on these swords.

The term 'flat' but paired with the word rapier, is exactly what I mean by the misuse of the rapier term. These 'flat' blades were the DE arming blades discussed here, and I would point out that in the 18th c. Spain was NOT producing blades, they were made in Solingen for Spain, and they were NOT rapier blades. The only 'rapier' blades made were narrow and not 'flat' but with distinct section. Italian blades were typically of the schiavona type, not flat but lenticular, and broadsword type (DE).

Turning to the khanda:

In Pant (p.183), "...the khanda blade, while remaining true to its form, was made with a longer blade after the arrival of the Europeans in India as can be seen in the illustrations of warriors in the 'Nujum al Ulum' which shows longer and thinner blades in the hands of warriors wearing the tall cap of Vijayanagara. The same thin khanda blade also appears in the 'Hamzanama'.The length and narrowness and SPOON SHAPED tip of the blade makes these easily recognizable.
No doubt this was the counter the extremely long blades (by Indian standards) of the European RAPIERS".

OBSERVATION:
Obviously this reference is to the arrival of the Portuguese in the 16th c.
The rapiers were known to reach extraordinary lengths, and were notably impressive to the Marathas. While the khanda seems to have maintained its traditional hilt, by the 17th it had become the 'Hindu basket hilt' with addition of a knuckle (finger) guard between the plated cross guard and pommel.

[Jim McDougall]

It has been previously mentioned, in quoting the famed Maratha naval admiral Sarkhel Kanhoji Angre (1698-1729) that "..the English blades were only fit to cut butter with".
Rawson (1969. p.45) notes that there can be no doubt that English blades were 'brought'(?) by the Marathas, but factory correspondence shows they were regarded as highly unsatisfactory. Grose in 1772 )"Voyages to the East Indies") notes that a letter written by an EIC servant expressly states that the Marathas would not buy English blades, but only German (Solingen), Italian and Spanish RAPIER blades.

Pant (1980, p.70) notes that after the British occupation in the 18th century these RAPIERS became very popular in India also. Sometimes the rapier blades have been fitted to the firangi (khanda) and other Indian swords also (pata?).

OBSERVATION:

Exactly what English blades were being offered or provided in these times?
At the time of Admiral Angre, in the late 17th early 18th the rapier had largely become obsolete (except typically in Spain) and the small sword had become the fashionable civilian sword. The English blade making industry was virtually non existent but for the German oriented Hounslow factory up to mid 17th and Shotley Bridge in latter 17th. While there were some makers in Oxford their production was limited, and through these times the only blades produced were 'arming' blades of single edge usually for mortuary type swords......certainly NOT rapiers.
I have seen many European arming swords such as 'pappenheimers' referred to as rapiers.....though their heavy but relatively narrow blades are obviously not 'rapier'.

As previously mentioned, the Italian blades were likely schiavona types, a heavier blade usually broadsword but later backsword, and with these complex hilts, were often regarded as a type of arming rapier.

As mentioned, most of the Spanish blades in early to latter 18th c. were nearly invariably made in Solingen and mounted with DE dragoon blades (arming) with hexagonal section but in cuphilts (colonial) they were often termed rapiers by writers. Obviously in Spain it was 'espade de taza' , indeed using the espada term.

The reason I have attended to this remark on the English blades is that some of the text in references uses the term rapier and is pertinent.

Returning to the comment in context with English blades, that after the British occupation in India in 18th c. the 'RAPIER' blades became popular.
The only English 'rapier' blade I can think of was the small sword, which was of course mostly a dress sword, or perhaps dueling epee, yet due to the similarity of hilt styles was often referred to generally as a 'rapier'.
In the famed battle of Lt. Maynard vs. Blackbeard in 1718, in the action Maynard's sword (a smallsword) had its blade snap in half.
Perhaps similar result with these type blades were the source of Angre's comment. It seems quite possible that Angre's comment was somewhat politically motivated, considering the conflicts between him and them.

As the English could barely supply their own demands and relied primarily on Solingen imports for blades, how could they sell to the Marathas? there were few makers. Even by mid 18th c. there were only 3 or 4 makers in Birmingham aside from probably numbers of independants not recorded.

[Jim McDougall]

FURTHER NOTES:
Re: possible use of the European rapier blade in Indian pata and khanda, the gauntlet sword and 'Hindu basket hilt'.

In Rawson (1969, p.23),
"...Indian swordsmanship seems never to have made use of the point or much use of guarding with the sword. We have it on the authority of the traveler Tavernier that his own European method of point-fence was completely unfamiliar to his Indian hosts. The only evidence for the use of the point in Indian hand arms occurs in the specialized katars equipped with a heavy 'maille perce' tip. Indian sword blades were thus not made primarily to parry wigh. Parrying was the function of the small circular shield in use since the 10th c.
Blades were intended primarily to cut, and only the Maratha swords influenced by European examples, which were given reinforced edges and basket hilts, seem ever to have been conceived as parrying weapons. "

on p.47 re, the Marathas":
"..they seem to be content with the forms of the European blades as they received them, and the actual forms of the mountings have no more than immediately practical invention expended on them".

also, "...there is no indication that the Marathas entertained an aesthetic of the sword, though no doubt they rated good workmanship highly, and must have been skilled swordsmen. Their fondness for the adaptable BROADSWORD indicates they were swordsmen of a character that did not allow any preconceptions of a science of swordsmanship to interfere with expediency".

Throughout the 18th into the 19th c. many kinds of sword besides standard forms were used by the Marathas, noted as a 'motley' crowd, and used pretty much any blades and weapons available.

MY CONCLUSION:
While there was a wide array of European sword blades entering the Maratha sphere, these were primarily arming types of blades, typically double edged, but some were backswords. Although some of these were narrow blades, the term 'rapier' blade was often misleadingly used, as they were 'heavy' rapier blades as used on swords such a pappenheimers, schiavona and other military type arming swords.

These were coming into Indian trade through the Marathas, and most probably many Armenian merchants, and came mostly from Solingen, possibly Genoa and other entrepots. As there were often intrigues interrupting shipments of blades from Germany into England, it is possible that the notion of English blades might have become construed through such routing. However the comment by Admiral Angre surely could not have referred to these German blades s they were high quality.

Therefore I would submit that the narrow rapier type blades used in civilian fencing type swords were not used in swords such as the pata and khanda. They could however have been used in the 'gupti' sword cane/stick.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thank You Jim~ That was a brilliant rendition and a great learning curve for all concerned.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Therefore I would submit that the narrow rapier type blades used in civilian fencing type swords were not used in swords such as the pata and khanda...

A toast to your candid statement, Jim,
Let's make it an illustrated one ... with images borrowed from my own little collection and Eduardo Nobre's, featuring swords that may be called rapiers, some of them "off mark" (illegally lengthy) and some patas i saved to my disk a while back from this very forum. Different blade typology is visible... at least in these shown


.

[ariel]

The issue is significantly confused by the fact that we do not know exactly to what kind of sword ( blade) a particular author is referring.

Was he having in mind a late Renaissance cut-and-thrust sword?
Or, the 17-18 century purely thrusting smallsword that continued to be called rapier by some despite the obvious dating and functional difference?

While the former could easily be used as a part of Indian Pata or Firangi, or even Khanda, the latter was totally unsuitable for that purpose.

Let’s not overestimate military/fencing sophistication of older linguists and even arms historians . After all, even now we can see definition of long and thin bronze Mycenaean swords as “rapiers”. Sure, they looked like swords that d’Artagnan wielded in countless Hollywood movies:-)

While the most popular origin of the word “rapier” is traced to the Spanish Espada Ropera ( dress sword), there were opinions that it stemmed from Greek ραπίζειν “ to strike”, or French /English raspiere/ rasper “scraper or poker”.

Language is a powerful tool to confuse us. Not for nothing Divine creation of multiple languages ended human project of building the Tower of Babel and why Americans and Brits are called two nations divided by a common language:-)

[fernando]

Amen to all that, Ariel.
I would add to the etymology quiz the suggestion by some dude called Scheler in that, the discussed term comes from the German rappen, raffen = snatch.
But, as in its genesis this sword style had about the same parameters in different nations, and their nationals adopted local idiomatic terms to name the thing, even possibly having given it a different use, evolution then followed its path according to each said nation's needs and imagination; civilian, military, cut thrust, whatever.
Not wanting to be tagged as a radical, i would not reject the perspective that traditionalists would decline the use of the rapier controversial term, despite the burden to spell out a couple describing words, to let know what they refer to.
In the end, the inexorable truth is that, before and after rapiers, swords remain swords.

.

[Jim McDougall]

First of all, thank you so much Ibrahiim and Fernando for the kind words.

Ariel, thank you for finally capturing exactly what this thread was all about in the beginning, and the dilemma I referred to, which was we could not know with certainty which type of blade was being noted by the authors. It was never about the 'name game' or the almost nonsensical 'firangi' conundrum.

The point was (no pun intended) that the point-fence style of swordsmanship was completely unknown to the Indians in the 17th c.(as well noted by Tavernier).

As mentioned earlier (and I appreciate the indulgence for the elaborate corpus of cited quotes in my text) Elgood mentioned that the khanda blade was made longer after the arrival of the Europeans. He states this was no doubt to counter the EXTREMELY long blades of the European 'rapiers'

This is of course in accord with the notably (and often 'illegally so', as in Spanish legal restrictions) long rapier blades you show Fernando.

As can be seen with the pata illustration, this wider broadsword blade, which is distinctly German in form, but curiously has the three central fullers and the moons (dukari) as placed on Saharan blades. This type blade with three fullers is identical to my pata, but mine has astral sun, moon etc. This shows clearly that numbers of German blades which had been likely destined for North African entrepots, seem to have diverted to the Indian ports in the west.

In Rawson (1969, #22) is a pata in the V&A museum, 18th c. with this type of 'arming' blade. As noted, these became colloquially associated with the late renaissance period thrusting rapiers, where similar hilts were later mounted with militarily feasible heavier blades. (attached image).

In Pant, the plate of khandas I included with five examples (added below)of line drawings, the one on the far left seems to have a thin rapier blade, but this seems an anomaly or perhaps artistic license?
Rawson notes (p.23) that blades were intended primarily to cut, and only the Maratha swords influenced by European examples, which were given reinforced edged and basket hilts, seem ever to have bee conceived as parrying weapons.

While this suggests that European swordsmanship appears to have had distinct influence on the hilt, with addition of finger guard to complete the basket effect....and the bolstered edges which suggest same to receive blows in parrying.....it still does not seem the thrust was used. Again, this would negate the probable use of the narrow rapier blades.

Thank you guys for the additional input, which helps better evaluate this question as posed.

[ariel]

Agree 100%.

And, taking a risk of being chided for not sticking to the topic, the same considerations equally apply to the Katar/jamadhar, Khanda and endless Indonesian controversies. Tribe, tradition and language dictate names.
This is why it is so important to flush out original names and try to correlate them with the people who used them.

Name is an equivalent of a DNA test.