Pala - translation on the blade

ALEX · 8th March 2019, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

My guess is Syria.

Agree with Ariel. The silver coftgari does look similar to some Balkan Yataghans, but overall this Ottoman Pala was likely made in Syria. Here's similar:

Kubur · 8th March 2019, 10:54 AM

Inscriptions, blade, hilt, scabbard all Balkans

What makes you think that this kilic is from Syria?

I vote for Balkans, but it's not a difficult one.

ariel · 8th March 2019, 11:41 AM

My opinion was based on the same point indicated by Alex: silver koftgari.
Even now e-bay is filled with identical replicas coming from Syria and sold either directly from Damascus or through Turkish intermediaries.

Kubur · 8th March 2019, 01:15 PM

I was thinking that you were saying Ottoman Syria
If you mean 20th Syrian replica, then you are twice wrong.
This kilic is absolutely perfect and the inscription is original and genuine.
For Syrian replicas please look at the book Weapons of the islamic world, full of fakes...
Let me see if i can find some examples, otherwise i will scan some pages...

ALEX · 8th March 2019, 03:48 PM

Kubur, I am sure Ariel can tell this Pala is not a replica. He referred to the fact they are produced in Syria up until this day, and there is reason it can be Syrian, but no reason calling others ‘wrong’ for having an opinion!
This particular inscription form is not typical for Palas, so could be added later or elsewhere. The blade profile and laminated steel are more indicative of Syrian than Greek or Balkan Palas in my opinion. You may see THIS THREAD for references to both past and present Ottoman Palas in Syria (see a Bedouin Chief photo, thread 12, and several similar Palas/Kilijes on the workshop wall).

qusko · 8th March 2019, 08:55 PM

I was able to receive some partial translation:

لافتی الا علی لا سیف الا ذوالفقار
There is no brave young man like Ali, and no sword like Zulfiqar

TVV · 8th March 2019, 10:24 PM

The zig-zag decoration on the brass scabbard parts also looks like a typical Balkan decorative element to me.

A lot of arms made in the Balkans at one point traveled to Syria and Egypt - seeing a pala in a Syrian context means it was used there, but does not automatically mean it was made there.

Richard G · 12th March 2019, 03:47 PM

Doesn't the inscription indicate that it, at least, is more likely to be Syrian than Balkan?
Regards
Richard

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8th March 2019, 10:54 AM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Inscriptions, blade, hilt, scabbard all Balkans What makes you think that this kilic is from Syria? I vote for Balkans, but it's not a difficult one.

8th March 2019, 11:41 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My opinion was based on the same point indicated by Alex: silver koftgari. Even now e-bay is filled with identical replicas coming from Syria and sold either directly from Damascus or through Turkish intermediaries.

8th March 2019, 01:15 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I was thinking that you were saying Ottoman Syria If you mean 20th Syrian replica, then you are twice wrong. This kilic is absolutely perfect and the inscription is original and genuine. For Syrian replicas please look at the book Weapons of the islamic world, full of fakes... Let me see if i can find some examples, otherwise i will scan some pages...

8th March 2019, 03:48 PM	#5
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Kubur, I am sure Ariel can tell this Pala is not a replica. He referred to the fact they are produced in Syria up until this day, and there is reason it can be Syrian, but no reason calling others ‘wrong’ for having an opinion! This particular inscription form is not typical for Palas, so could be added later or elsewhere. The blade profile and laminated steel are more indicative of Syrian than Greek or Balkan Palas in my opinion. You may see THIS THREAD for references to both past and present Ottoman Palas in Syria (see a Bedouin Chief photo, thread 12, and several similar Palas/Kilijes on the workshop wall).

8th March 2019, 08:55 PM	#6
qusko Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 62	I was able to receive some partial translation: لافتی الا علی لا سیف الا ذوالفقار There is no brave young man like Ali, and no sword like Zulfiqar

8th March 2019, 10:24 PM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	The zig-zag decoration on the brass scabbard parts also looks like a typical Balkan decorative element to me. A lot of arms made in the Balkans at one point traveled to Syria and Egypt - seeing a pala in a Syrian context means it was used there, but does not automatically mean it was made there.

12th March 2019, 03:47 PM	#8
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 409	Doesn't the inscription indicate that it, at least, is more likely to be Syrian than Balkan? Regards Richard