Arab? Musket

[colin henshaw]

I've never really understood the purpose of the half-moon shaped wood butt caps on these guns.

I remember reading somewhere (maybe one of Freya Stark's books), that the large rounded wooden "pad" was to alleviate the very strong "kick" these guns had when fired. The recoil could be so hard as to throw the shooter to the ground, seemingly...

[kahnjar1]

I agree with Colin as to the probable purpose of the "butt caps". I have always understood that they were there to soften the kick of the gun against the shoulder......HOWEVER the feature is not present on Indian Toradors, which have a much smaller (and probably sharper) butt, so maybe it is a matter of Arabian taste, rather than practicality.
Stu

[Kubur]

Hi guys
i looked in my books and Elgood says Corg, Malabar...
So unless there is a matchlock from Koweit and I'm ready to accept this proposal (we need more Koweiti examples)
I think that the gun posted is from Malabar...
But the nice barrel is Persian if not Central Asian...

[mahratt]

By the way, similar butt can be seen in some Afghan rifles:

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by mahratt

By the way, similar butt can be seen in some Afghan rifles:

The photo here shows the thick leather pads added to the butt sections. This, more than likely was to help reduce more severe recoil. Seems rather obvious.

It's the wood half-circle Arab alteration that is still a mystery to me. I just view it as a styling technique from tradition. Can't come up with a different reason.

Rick

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi guys
i looked in my books and Elgood says Corg, Malabar...
So unless there is a matchlock from Koweit and I'm ready to accept this proposal (we need more Koweiti examples)
I think that the gun posted is from Malabar...
But the nice barrel is Persian if not Central Asian...

Kuwait is just like all the Arab countries who strictly brought weapons from abroad. You’ll find examples but without provenance it could very well be recently brought from Saudi or Oman. They all look nearly identical when it comes to the local additions. Many also retain decoration of their previous Indian or Persian owners. Some can be Ottoman guns too.

My reference to the example I own was not to conclude that the item posted is Kuwaiti or of any place in general but that it is fitting the broader style of Arab used guns.

With regards to the butt stock, I do not know why is it used but you can even find in modern guns such as the AK47.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Kuwait is just like all the Arab countries who strictly brought weapons from abroad. You’ll find examples but without provenance it could very well be recently brought from Saudi or Oman. They all look nearly identical when it comes to the local additions. Many also retain decoration of their previous Indian or Persian owners. Some can be Ottoman guns too.

My reference to the example I own was not to conclude that the item posted is Kuwaiti or of any place in general but that it is fitting the broader style of Arab used guns.

With regards to the butt stock, I do not know why is it used but you can even find in modern guns such as the AK47.

Thanks for the clarification Lofty. Exactly what I was trying to convey in #8 above.
Stu

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Thanks for the clarification Lofty. Exactly what I was trying to convey in #8 above.
Stu

Hi
Well let me be more clear.
I do not believe in these indo arab terms, it's a nonsense.
So if someone, Lofti or other, brings evidence that these guns were produced in the Gulf (Kuweit included) then I'll be happy.
But up to now these guns are known to be from the Corgs, Malabar.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi
Well let me be more clear.
I do not believe in these indo arab terms, it's a nonsense.
So if someone, Lofti or other, brings evidence that these guns were produced in the Gulf (Kuweit included) then I'll be happy.
But up to now these guns are known to be from the Corgs, Malabar.

No one is arguing these are made in Kuwait or anywhere else in the gulf. These and other fire arms, past and present are imported from abroad. Older abu fatilas are usually with Indian and Persian barrels. But the locals added decoration to it, including the butt stock. A thing they do even with modern weapons.