Interesting Balkan Long Gun

rickystl · 26th August 2018, 03:47 PM

I took the lock off the gun to study further. I'm convinced that this gun was originally built as percussion and later converted to flintlock back in the period.
Notice there is a plug in the barrel where the vent hole now resides. This is where a percussion drum or bolster originally resided. Also, the lock mortice shows a period alteration to accomodate the change to a different lock (flintlock). It's also why the vent hole in the barrel does not line up exactly in the center of the priming pan. But would still work OK.
Of course we often see this change from the latter percussion system back to the earlier flintlock on many Eastern type guns. Percussion caps being difficult to locate and expensive in these Eastern regions.
Surprisingly, the lock is in good working order as-is. I got lucky with this one LOL. It appears to be locally made. While not quite up to European snuff, it is made much better than the typical Balkan flintlock. The main and sear springs are strong, but not overly so.
So the gun just needs a bit of minor clean-up and displayed with the others in the collection. Nice for a change to get something that doesn't require restoration or other fixes. LOL

Rick

eftihis · 26th August 2018, 08:15 PM

Well, i was discussing about this type of gun with a turkish collector, and he said that these are known in Turkey as Armenian guns. This provemamce correxponds well with the "like caucasus niello" decoration.

kahnjar1 · 26th August 2018, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eftihis

Well, i was discussing about this type of gun with a turkish collector, and he said that these are known in Turkey as Armenian guns. This provemamce correxponds well with the "like caucasus niello" decoration.

.........which would suggest that Tirri's placing as Rumelian COULD be wrong. The region known as Rumelia is west of Turkey (in Europe), whereas Armenia is to the east (in Asia).....

Battara · 27th August 2018, 12:20 AM

A note about Tirri - his book has a lot of things wrong and mislabeled.

Martin Lubojacky · 27th August 2018, 06:53 AM

I saw exactly this gun (shape of stock, stock, engarvings) cca four times in Turkey (markets in Ankara). Based on this I would say it is of Anatolian origin. Usually they were in worse condition than yours.

rickystl · 27th August 2018, 03:09 PM

Hmmmm.....some interesting responses here. Thanks.

Barrel Bands: Now that I think about it, even the shape of the blue/black bands are similar to ones on Caucasian guns. The other two silver colored bands are shaped very similar to ones used on Algerian long guns. Curious.

It seems this "style" of gun may have had it's origin in Turkey - somewhere if others had seem them there. The carvings on the butt stock look similar to photos I've seen of old Turkish furniture.

Thanks for all the replies. Much appreciated.

Rick

Martin Lubojacky · 27th August 2018, 03:54 PM

I think the stock and its engarvings are distinctive in this case (and very probably Anatolia/Asia Minor).
(Nevertheless, as far as your evaluation of the two types of the bands are concerned: If I am not mistaken, the African - Mediterranean coast was under the Ottoman Empiry for a long time... E.g.one of the most interesting big qamas I have ever seen I found in Libya years ago. I would say it was of Syrian origin, which was also Ottoman for a centuries... It was very probably survival of Ottoman garrison force. And, by the way - I was also told that Ottomans used to bring, among others, the garrison force from the Causasus region. - Just what I heard.)

26th August 2018, 03:47 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	I took the lock off the gun to study further. I'm convinced that this gun was originally built as percussion and later converted to flintlock back in the period. Notice there is a plug in the barrel where the vent hole now resides. This is where a percussion drum or bolster originally resided. Also, the lock mortice shows a period alteration to accomodate the change to a different lock (flintlock). It's also why the vent hole in the barrel does not line up exactly in the center of the priming pan. But would still work OK. Of course we often see this change from the latter percussion system back to the earlier flintlock on many Eastern type guns. Percussion caps being difficult to locate and expensive in these Eastern regions. Surprisingly, the lock is in good working order as-is. I got lucky with this one LOL. It appears to be locally made. While not quite up to European snuff, it is made much better than the typical Balkan flintlock. The main and sear springs are strong, but not overly so. So the gun just needs a bit of minor clean-up and displayed with the others in the collection. Nice for a change to get something that doesn't require restoration or other fixes. LOL Rick Attached Images

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26th August 2018, 08:15 PM	#2
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Well, i was discussing about this type of gun with a turkish collector, and he said that these are known in Turkey as Armenian guns. This provemamce correxponds well with the "like caucasus niello" decoration.

27th August 2018, 12:20 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	A note about Tirri - his book has a lot of things wrong and mislabeled.

27th August 2018, 06:53 AM	#5
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	I saw exactly this gun (shape of stock, stock, engarvings) cca four times in Turkey (markets in Ankara). Based on this I would say it is of Anatolian origin. Usually they were in worse condition than yours.

27th August 2018, 03:09 PM	#6
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	Hmmmm.....some interesting responses here. Thanks. Barrel Bands: Now that I think about it, even the shape of the blue/black bands are similar to ones on Caucasian guns. The other two silver colored bands are shaped very similar to ones used on Algerian long guns. Curious. It seems this "style" of gun may have had it's origin in Turkey - somewhere if others had seem them there. The carvings on the butt stock look similar to photos I've seen of old Turkish furniture. Thanks for all the replies. Much appreciated. Rick

27th August 2018, 03:54 PM	#7
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	I think the stock and its engarvings are distinctive in this case (and very probably Anatolia/Asia Minor). (Nevertheless, as far as your evaluation of the two types of the bands are concerned: If I am not mistaken, the African - Mediterranean coast was under the Ottoman Empiry for a long time... E.g.one of the most interesting big qamas I have ever seen I found in Libya years ago. I would say it was of Syrian origin, which was also Ottoman for a centuries... It was very probably survival of Ottoman garrison force. And, by the way - I was also told that Ottomans used to bring, among others, the garrison force from the Causasus region. - Just what I heard.)