Keris to comment

[ridho pulungan]

Sorry for bad picture..i will send another picture later..thanks you for all your kind comment..
Regards.

[ridho pulungan]

Hi guys..
Hope this picture can make you more clear about this keris.
Regards.
Ridho Pulungan

[David]

Yes Ridho, these are better photos in that they are not shaky and blurry, but they are a bit too dark to show the details well. I hope you don't mind that i lightened one up for better viewing.

[David]

I think what we can now see shows why you identified this figures as Singo rather than Naga. They have front legs and paws, not a feature generally shown on Naga. They also seem to have manes. Then again the legs seem to have scales.
I believe we have already established this keris as Kemardikan. As such, many of the rules of presentation go out the window. To my eye the creatures represented on this blade are neither Naga or Singo. Perhaps they were created to be a combination of both. This is a nicely crafted and elaborately dressed bit of modern keris art. I don't believe we can hold it to any of the standards of pakem or say for sure exactly what the creatures on the blade are intended to be as they don't seem to fit into any traditional form.

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by David

I think what we can now see shows why you identified this figures as Singo rather than Naga. They have front legs and paws, not a feature generally shown on Naga. They also seem to have manes. Then again the legs seem to have scales.
I believe we have already established this keris as Kemardikan. As such, many of the rules of presentation go out the window. To my eye the creatures represented on this blade are neither Naga or Singo. Perhaps they were created to be a combination of both. This is a nicely crafted and elaborately dressed bit of modern keris art. I don't believe we can hold it to any of the standards of pakem or say for sure exactly what the creatures on the blade are intended to be as they don't seem to fit into any traditional form.

In his original post, Ridho identified the figures as singo kilin. The kilin part here seems to be key. The kilin/kirin/qilin is a mythological chimera, which I believe has it's origin in East Asia. There are many representations of qilin with scales, which fits with the way the figures on this keris are depicted. In this regard, we could say the depiction fits the traditional form of the qilin, a non-indigenous chimera, rather well.

[Bjorn]

Below some photos of Qilin. The first one is located on the grounds of the Summer Palace in Beijing. The second is is the logo of Japan's Kirin biru. The last one shows a barongsai (lion dance, likely related to the well known Balinese barong as well) in Bogor (West Java).

[David]

Originally Posted by Bjorn

In his original post, Ridho identified the figures as singo kilin. The kilin part here seems to be key. The kilin/kirin/qilin is a mythological chimera, which I believe has it's origin in East Asia. There are many representations of qilin with scales, which fits with the way the figures on this keris are depicted. In this regard, we could say the depiction fits the traditional form of the qilin, a non-indigenous chimera, rather well.

While this may or may not be the intention of the maker it is still a mythological creature which is outside the sphere of Javanese iconography, so still a fantasy piece if you will.

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by David

While this may or may not be the intention of the maker it is still a mythological creature which is outside the sphere of Javanese iconography, so still a fantasy piece if you will.

I agree with you to a certain point, David. While the origin of the kilin lies outside of Java, it is a valid cultural symbol for the ethnic Chinese who settled in Indonesia in ages past and their totok and peranakan descendants. So while it is not Javanese iconography pur sang, it is used in Indonesia by Indonesian nationals.

In batik, the qilin is one of the motifs encountered in pieces that are aimed, or created by, ethnic Chinese or peranakan.
Unlike the art of batik, in keris, the qilin hasn't seen use as a traditional motif, as far as I know. Nevertheless, we are looking at a keris kemardikan here, which offers creators the freedom to employ fantasy designs, but also to employ designs that have, and are, used in Indonesia outside of the sphere of keris.
In this regard, I agree that the qilin motif is not a traditional keris design, but I would not go as far as to call it a fantasy design when applied to a keris kemardikan.

[ridho pulungan]

Originally Posted by Bjorn

In his original post, Ridho identified the figures as singo kilin. The kilin part here seems to be key. The kilin/kirin/qilin is a mythological chimera, which I believe has it's origin in East Asia. There are many representations of qilin with scales, which fits with the way the figures on this keris are depicted. In this regard, we could say the depiction fits the traditional form of the qilin, a non-indigenous chimera, rather well.

Hi Bjorn.nice to meet you.
Thank you so much for your comment. Its was reliefing to me. I looking forward for any sugestion or advice from you about this keris or else later.
You guys are Awesome.!.

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by ridho pulungan

Hi Bjorn.nice to meet you.
Thank you so much for your comment. Its was reliefing to me. I looking forward for any sugestion or advice from you about this keris or else later.
You guys are Awesome.!.

Hello Ridho, nice to meet you too.
I'm happy I was able to contribute a little to your topic.

[ridho pulungan]

Originally Posted by David

Yes Ridho, these are better photos in that they are not shaky and blurry, but they are a bit too dark to show the details well. I hope you don't mind that i lightened one up for better viewing.

Thank you so much David.