Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 15th April 2018, 11:23 AM   #1
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,255
Post

Hello Gustav,

Quote:
While cleaning blades and making pictures I took some care of this Malay Keris Selit I have for a longer time already. It's from Northern Peninsula, 23,2 cm blade. A little bit unusual for KS because it's Pandai Saras type blade in a Saribulan sheath.
That's a nice Keris Selit! I'm not sure whether this concept applied to pre-20th century Kelantan/Pattani culture - their usually long blades and scabbards would certainly make these smaller ones more convenient to wear on special occasions (especially ceremonial events with lots of sitting...).

There do appear to be some PS variants; while short blades tend to be more stout, I'm not convinced that this really represents a PS style though. However, it clearly exhibits northern Malay features and it may be a moot point what name to tag on it...


Quote:
For years I thought it would be mono-steel, around or even post WWII.
There are many northern Malay keris blades that are laminated, usually with somewhat subdued contrast like in, e. g., Aceh blades.

Do you associate monosteel in Malayan keris with the WW2 period and later? I'd expect them to have access to monosteel quite a lot earlier and utilize it for keris, too.


Quote:
After some hours in pineapple juice it became clear, that:
1) the blade is hardened (it's actually very sharp);
Yup, really extensive treatment down into the sogokan area!


Quote:
2) it was treated with Warangan;
Like I emailed you a while back, I wouldn't be surprised to find warangan on (untouched) antique blades from pretty much all over the archipelago (including the northern Malay region).

Fruit juices also darken steel/etc. though - what criteria speak for warangan, specifically?


Quote:
3) it most probably is very finely laminated, but - it looks almost like sham. My photograph and etching skills are not good enough to show it properly, yet there are some hints even in my lousy pictures. It's also a bit difficult to see under the file work.
I guess I see what you mean - could this possibly be shear steel? This also can exhibit sham-like internal structure resembling crucible steel.


Quote:
Gonjo perhaps could be from a different material.
It definitely is laminated with contrasting material - this pamor hasn't been utilized for the blade for sure!

Interesting keris, congrats and thanks for posting! Let me know if ...

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2018, 07:07 PM   #2
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,295
Default

Hello Kai;

Quote:

There do appear to be some PS variants; while short blades tend to be more stout, I'm not convinced that this really represents a PS style though. However, it clearly exhibits northern Malay features and it may be a moot point what name to tag on it...
One of the most characteristic, distinctive features for a PS is the central ridge (Odo-Odo), continued on Gonjo. It is present. Also Greneng on my blade is absolutely typical for PS.


Quote:
Do you associate monosteel in Malayan keris with the WW2 period and later? I'd expect them to have access to monosteel quite a lot earlier and utilize it for keris, too.
I own about 10 Peninsular blades and have seen some more. They are older ones; for two, including this KS, I am not so sure and would accept period around WWII as a possible time frame of making. These are the latest ones. None of my blades or old (pre-WWII) blades I have seen, are made from mono-steel. My impression until now is, that, even if mono-steel was used for tools already in 19th cent., Keris blades still would be made from laminated material.

Quote:
Like I emailed you a while back, I wouldn't be surprised to find warangan on (untouched) antique blades from pretty much all over the archipelago (including the northern Malay region).
I have never had or expressed a contrary oppinion, au contraire.

Quote:
Fruit juices also darken steel/etc. though - what criteria speak for warangan, specifically?
I am sure you have experienced many times - after some time in juice the blade turns deep black in some places and these places start "to bleed" while scrubbing the blade.

Quote:
I guess I see what you mean - could this possibly be shear steel? This also can exhibit sham-like internal structure resembling crucible steel.
Perhaps. It's something I haven't seen before (except for the Gonjo).

Last edited by Gustav; 15th April 2018 at 07:28 PM.
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.