Translating text and date on a Ottoman dagger

Kubur · 15th March 2018, 07:47 PM

Hi,

The dagger, the blade, the koftgari are all good and original.
There is no problem with this Ottoman Turkish khanjar.
Just beautiful

Kubur

Hombre · 16th March 2018, 09:12 PM

Hej Drabant1701,
Grattis! En mycket snygg dolk!

Hälsningar
Stefan

mariusgmioc · 17th March 2018, 10:10 AM

I have the same issue of lighter patches of wootz in more blades (see Persian Kard with discoloured patches near the koftgari on both sides). I suspect it is because of different heat treatment. Nothing unusual.

Lovely dagger!

asomotif · 17th March 2018, 11:50 AM

What a beautiful dagger !

Drabant1701 · 17th March 2018, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I have the same issue of lighter patches of wootz in more blades (see Persian Kard with discoloured patches near the koftgari on both sides). I suspect it is because of different heat treatment. Nothing unusual.

Lovely dagger!

Thanks! Your persian dagger is beautiful, Im putting one of those on the want list. As for light patches, yes most likley heat treatment. I have started to realize that once you have found the correct etchant for a specific blade, its best to just accept the result, any discolorizion on the blade, from heat treatment or other is part of the blades personality.

motan · 17th March 2018, 04:15 PM

Hi drabant1701,

Since I consider kubur much more knowledgeable than myself, you should trust his judgement on this better than mine.
Whenever I see a very old piece in great condition, and especially with things like koftgari that are prone to wear, it arouses some suspicion (and perhaps little jealousy too). It is just rare to find them like this, but not implausible. The history of storage and use are more important than age in determining the condition. The light patches around the koftgari may reflect something in the process of production, but more likely are the effect of repeated cleaning around the decoration to prevent wear.

mariusgmioc · 17th March 2018, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

I have started to realize that once you have found the correct etchant for a specific blade, its best to just accept the result, any discolorizion on the blade, from heat treatment or other is part of the blades personality.

I reached precisely the same conclusion!

What etchant do you use?

@ motan

The lighter patches are not the result of cleaning. They are intrinsic to the wootz, most probably the result of heat treatment different for the tip/edge and for the area near the hilt. I polished a couple of blades to mirror polish and etched them anew and got the same patches like before.

YataganMan · 17th March 2018, 07:47 PM

Hi every one,
The dagger and the scabbard are original produced in the eastern part of Turkey and ıts date is correct. What looks a little suspicious is the koftgari work and the heat treatment.In order to lay the infra structure for koftgari most hardened blades are heat treated (to normalise ) when it becomes easier to cross cut .The tell tale signs are that on a good blade koftgari work is restrained and no overflow of cross hatching is allowed.But over all ıts a good
knife to have.Congradulations
Yataganman

Drabant1701 · 18th March 2018, 01:07 PM

[QUOTE=mariusgmioc]I reached precisely the same conclusion!

What etchant do you use?

I dipped it 5-10 seconds i ferric chloride. Only one etching, etched super quick.
Then baking powder and lots of water, and lots of oil.

Drabant1701 · 29th May 2020, 05:34 PM

Two years have past since I made this post and now I finally got a translation of the text on the dagger. So for anyone who my find this thread in the future I will update the post. The translator said that he thought the scripture was from the kurds in Turkey and this is the translation he provided:

The first line reads:
The key is in the dagger that he placed in his armor
The second line reads:
The head of the prey is out there for everyone to see
The third line reads:
You, the young one, are where the lover heads to do his prayers.
The last sentence reads:
The idol whom we praise is her beautiful face.

I was hoping for the makers or the owners name, but this will do

Btw for some reason this page flips the text on the dagger so its upside down. I was going to repost the picture in this reply, but it allways ends up upside down no matter how i rotate it before I post

17th March 2018, 10:10 AM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	I have the same issue of lighter patches of wootz in more blades (see Persian Kard with discoloured patches near the koftgari on both sides). I suspect it is because of different heat treatment. Nothing unusual. Lovely dagger! Attached Images

17th March 2018, 07:47 PM	#8
YataganMan Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 14	Ottoman Dagger Hi every one, The dagger and the scabbard are original produced in the eastern part of Turkey and ıts date is correct. What looks a little suspicious is the koftgari work and the heat treatment.In order to lay the infra structure for koftgari most hardened blades are heat treated (to normalise ) when it becomes easier to cross cut .The tell tale signs are that on a good blade koftgari work is restrained and no overflow of cross hatching is allowed.But over all ıts a good knife to have.Congradulations Yataganman

18th March 2018, 01:07 PM	#9
Drabant1701 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 181	[QUOTE=mariusgmioc]I reached precisely the same conclusion! What etchant do you use? I dipped it 5-10 seconds i ferric chloride. Only one etching, etched super quick. Then baking powder and lots of water, and lots of oil. Last edited by Drabant1701; 18th March 2018 at 04:48 PM.

29th May 2020, 05:34 PM	#10
Drabant1701 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 181	Two years have past since I made this post and now I finally got a translation of the text on the dagger. So for anyone who my find this thread in the future I will update the post. The translator said that he thought the scripture was from the kurds in Turkey and this is the translation he provided: The first line reads: The key is in the dagger that he placed in his armor The second line reads: The head of the prey is out there for everyone to see The third line reads: You, the young one, are where the lover heads to do his prayers. The last sentence reads: The idol whom we praise is her beautiful face. I was hoping for the makers or the owners name, but this will do Btw for some reason this page flips the text on the dagger so its upside down. I was going to repost the picture in this reply, but it allways ends up upside down no matter how i rotate it before I post Attached Images Last edited by Drabant1701; 29th May 2020 at 05:49 PM.

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15th March 2018, 07:47 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi, The dagger, the blade, the koftgari are all good and original. There is no problem with this Ottoman Turkish khanjar. Just beautiful Kubur

16th March 2018, 09:12 PM	#2
Hombre Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 232	Hej Drabant1701, Grattis! En mycket snygg dolk! Hälsningar Stefan

17th March 2018, 11:50 AM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,236	What a beautiful dagger !

17th March 2018, 04:15 PM	#6
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi drabant1701, Since I consider kubur much more knowledgeable than myself, you should trust his judgement on this better than mine. Whenever I see a very old piece in great condition, and especially with things like koftgari that are prone to wear, it arouses some suspicion (and perhaps little jealousy too). It is just rare to find them like this, but not implausible. The history of storage and use are more important than age in determining the condition. The light patches around the koftgari may reflect something in the process of production, but more likely are the effect of repeated cleaning around the decoration to prevent wear.