should I or shouldn't I change and repair

A. G. Maisey · 17th February 2018, 08:19 PM

The comments I made in post #7 were ill considered.

I based those comments on Green's photos, and the opinion I formed from those photos was that I would not give this keris house-room, I'd get rid of it as quickly as possible.

I was wrong.
This is a nice keris.

There was a time when I refused to make a comment or give an opinion unless the photos provided for comment were adequate to allow me to form a supportable opinion. My standards have slipped, it seems I have made comments in the recent past where my opinion was based upon less than adequate photos.

Thank you for the decent images Kai, and the lesson.

I retract my previous opinion, and reserve my present opinion. I would like to see the fit of the blade to the wrongko before commenting again.

kai · 17th February 2018, 09:31 PM

Hello Alan,

These are the only pics allowing a bit of info on the fit - I'd love to hear what Nik believes from personally handling this keris though?

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 18th February 2018, 12:02 AM

My current opinion:- leave as is

Some time during the 1970's, or maybe late 1960's, the Australian museum in Sydney accommodated an exhibition of Malay culture that included some keris, one of these keris had a reversed tajong hilt and a wrongko of the same form as Nik's wrongko.

I'm not really all that interested in keris from this part of the world, and do not know much about them but it seems to me that maybe it was/is legitimate to use this type of wrongko and blade together with a tajong hilt. Perhaps some local research has been done on this matter?

Paul de Souza · 18th February 2018, 05:08 AM

I think the piece should be kept as it is; a keris from the Edward Frey Collection.

Judging from the pictures provided by Kai, it would seem that the sheath was not made for the blade. The gaps between the blade and sheath at the aring and dagu (kepala cecak) ends, the gap between the blade and the sampir at the neck of the kepala cecak (wurung?) and the way the aring hovers so high above sampir tells me so. I hope I remember the terms correctly.

In addition, the normal blade one would expect with a Tajong would be a pandai saras. Notwithstanding this, it is not uncommon to find a southern /riau "bugis" inspired blade in northern pieces. Just that I would expect a pandai saras with a tajong hilt.

Given the circumstances, best to leave it as it is and celebrate the provenance. Not many can do that with a keris.

I like the gold leaf accent on some parts of the hilt - pity it did not remain intact and it seem to be applied to only one side. An experimentation?

kai · 18th February 2018, 12:50 PM

Hello Paul,

Quote:

I like the gold leaf accent on some parts of the hilt - pity it did not remain intact and it seem to be applied to only one side.

From the remaining highlights it does seem to have been present on both sides. Possibly it wore off more on one side during active use.

Regards,
Kai

Green · 20th February 2018, 02:19 PM

Kai;

The fit is barely acceptable and the sheath is not the original to the blade I believe as shown in the pic below.

I tend to agree with Alan's latest post in not changing anything and leave the whole assemble as it is except that I will repair the chip to the nose and the nasty gash/crack on the buah pinang . This can be easily done by good keris sheath makers that I can get over here.

This keris is actually NOT featured in the book but the hilt was.( The other two that I won were featured ). It is very possible that Frey knew that it was a wrong assemble and did not put it in .I in fact bid for this one more for the hilt . What is curious to me is why only one side of the hilt has the golden coat 'wiped' clean? whereas the other side is fairly intact?

kai · 20th February 2018, 05:44 PM

Hello Nik,

Thanks for the additional info!

Quote:

The fit is barely acceptable and the sheath is not the original to the blade I believe as shown in the pic below.

D'accord!

Quote:

I will repair the chip to the nose and the nasty gash/crack on the buah pinang . This can be easily done by good keris sheath makers that I can get over here.

Yes, that certainly wouldn't distract from the provenance and should help preservation for the future.

Quote:

This keris is actually NOT featured in the book but the hilt was.( The other two that I won were featured ). It is very possible that Frey knew that it was a wrong assemble and did not put it in .

I rather doubt the latter. BTW, my copy (which seems to be first printing) does not have this plate with the keris hilts (color plate #13 shows "keris art") nor the one with the keris with (possibly recycled pedang?) metal hilt.

Quote:

I in fact bid for this one more for the hilt . What is curious to me is why only one side of the hilt has the golden coat 'wiped' clean? whereas the other side is fairly intact?

It is quite usual that parts that are in contact with clothes (or touched by the hand) do show considerably more wear, especially gold leaf or paint.

BTW, now that you have the hilt in your hands, what would be your estimate of the hilt's age?

Regards,
Kai

17th February 2018, 09:31 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Alan, These are the only pics allowing a bit of info on the fit - I'd love to hear what Nik believes from personally handling this keris though? Regards, Kai Attached Images

20th February 2018, 02:19 PM	#6
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 321	Kai; The fit is barely acceptable and the sheath is not the original to the blade I believe as shown in the pic below. I tend to agree with Alan's latest post in not changing anything and leave the whole assemble as it is except that I will repair the chip to the nose and the nasty gash/crack on the buah pinang . This can be easily done by good keris sheath makers that I can get over here. This keris is actually NOT featured in the book but the hilt was.( The other two that I won were featured ). It is very possible that Frey knew that it was a wrong assemble and did not put it in .I in fact bid for this one more for the hilt . What is curious to me is why only one side of the hilt has the golden coat 'wiped' clean? whereas the other side is fairly intact? Attached Images

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17th February 2018, 08:19 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	The comments I made in post #7 were ill considered. I based those comments on Green's photos, and the opinion I formed from those photos was that I would not give this keris house-room, I'd get rid of it as quickly as possible. I was wrong. This is a nice keris. There was a time when I refused to make a comment or give an opinion unless the photos provided for comment were adequate to allow me to form a supportable opinion. My standards have slipped, it seems I have made comments in the recent past where my opinion was based upon less than adequate photos. Thank you for the decent images Kai, and the lesson. I retract my previous opinion, and reserve my present opinion. I would like to see the fit of the blade to the wrongko before commenting again.

18th February 2018, 12:02 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	My current opinion:- leave as is Some time during the 1970's, or maybe late 1960's, the Australian museum in Sydney accommodated an exhibition of Malay culture that included some keris, one of these keris had a reversed tajong hilt and a wrongko of the same form as Nik's wrongko. I'm not really all that interested in keris from this part of the world, and do not know much about them but it seems to me that maybe it was/is legitimate to use this type of wrongko and blade together with a tajong hilt. Perhaps some local research has been done on this matter?

18th February 2018, 05:08 AM	#4
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 66	I think the piece should be kept as it is; a keris from the Edward Frey Collection. Judging from the pictures provided by Kai, it would seem that the sheath was not made for the blade. The gaps between the blade and sheath at the aring and dagu (kepala cecak) ends, the gap between the blade and the sampir at the neck of the kepala cecak (wurung?) and the way the aring hovers so high above sampir tells me so. I hope I remember the terms correctly. In addition, the normal blade one would expect with a Tajong would be a pandai saras. Notwithstanding this, it is not uncommon to find a southern /riau "bugis" inspired blade in northern pieces. Just that I would expect a pandai saras with a tajong hilt. Given the circumstances, best to leave it as it is and celebrate the provenance. Not many can do that with a keris. I like the gold leaf accent on some parts of the hilt - pity it did not remain intact and it seem to be applied to only one side. An experimentation?